For me I can't get X51 and I knew that the aftermarket would eventually have a solution that is better and cheaper. Well, browsing around I found my prayers have been answered: https://www.boostaddict.com/content....e-2017-Carrera

More power than a 991.2 Turbo S! I'll be upgrading as soon as I can. Crushes X51 too!

 

Yah, but a tuned 991.2 TTS with exhaust, intercoolers and stock turbos is making 625whp on pump fuel without meth (655+ with meth, 685+ with 40% C85). So you know, I get what you're saying but... there is a reason people buy the TTS still.

 

Right but those turbos will support similar whp as a bolt on 991.2 Turbo S and do so in a lighter RWD package or with a manual option you can't get in the Turbo S.

Plus if you want more than the VTG's offer you have to ditch them.

You also save almost $100k by upgrading the Carrera.

Hell, I'll take a budget GT2.

Going to be interesting to see 991.2 Turbos and Carreras going at it...

 

True, you could get a manual RWD version. Pretty tough to keep up with over 500whp in these cars, but it would be fun trying.

Now, when it comes to VTGs, the 68-72mm VTGs available (ESMotor seems to lead here) will push a 991.2 TTS to over 700whp on pump fuel + meth injection. With ~100 octane, the "stage 4" cars in development right now are expected to push over 730whp with a safe tune. So again, there is a reason people are buying the Turbo cars still.

 

Exactly. Plus if you went with a Carrera T that's 500 pounds less weight. A massive difference.

I'll stick to quoting Mustang output figures to keep it uniform but a full bolt on 991.2 will do about 630 whp. More on a Dynojet as you hinted.

These turbos on the Carrera are doing 540 whp at 24 psi. They can't go further due to spark plug limitations at the moment. In theory the output will be a wash though once they get the spark issue resolved.

The truth is it will just come down to who spends more money as beyond that output level both motors will need to be built and both will need bigger turbos.

Anyway, I'm ordering the turbos and will be happy to run Big performance is no longer regulated to the Turbo model and tuning the 3.0's is a huge value in the Porsche lineup.

 

More like 350. No need to exaggerate. A 3.0 C2S is 3205 curb, wet.

A full *stock turbo* bolt-on. Which is what I said (actually, I said 625). Meth gives you a bit more, race fuel a bit more still.

These are early days, too. 1st-generation super-safe tunes.

On race fuel. It will be interesting to see whether or not that's only good for a couple of drag pulls or a couple of laps, and then your power is down because of heat soak. I don't know the answer to that, but I have suspicion that it'll be hard to get enough intake cooling - meth will be a big deal for the car, probably.

Isn't that always the way?

We'll see how it works in practice. I am not as optimistic as you are. I think it is possible that the C2S will run close to the stock TTS (however, I have a 135.99mph dead stock trap speed at a nationally calibrated track with my 991.2). Whether it will be able to continuously deliver that performance without heat soak, is where I will be interested to see.

But either way, we'll all have fun finding out.

 

I think with a manual trans this is a good option. Can pick up used '17 base for a decent price.

 

How much will the GT3 style exhaust be Sticky?

 

I'm not exaggerating. Unfortunately, your numbers are off. Car and Driver tested the latest 911 turbo at 3656 pounds: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...bo-test-review

A base Carrera PDK with fluids is 3300 pounds based on independent weights. That is 350 pounds right there. A Carrera T is 3150 pounds or 150 pounds lighter than the standard car. That equals 500 pounds does it not? Quite a bit, isn't it?

Unless you have the logs to show they are super safe I'd have to question you. It looks like tuners are already getting pretty aggressive with both cars.

Fortunately there are options for upgraded FMIC's. You're right, heat soak is an issue even for the 991 Turbo which is why the 991.1's were so inconsistent. With upgrades and meth, shouldn't be a problem.

The C2S will easily top the stock TTS as it already has as per the dyno charts.

A 135.99 trap speed would be the highest 991.2 trap speed I've ever seen from a stock car. I'm not doubting you just would like to see the slip on that! Wow!

The point of all of this ultimately is the Carrera is now a serious mod platform and offers things the turbo does not. Of course the Turbo is king of the hill out of the box and can be modded which is why we love it. The Carrera can do a lot for less money though and it will impress as time goes on. The 3.0 can be bored to 3.8 liters by the way And it revs higher! In a lighter package

Not a bad choice by any means for performance.

 

All your weights are either off, or one of them is. A Carrera T is not significantly lighter than a regular 2S. People have been making fun of it for exactly that reason, actually.

Motor Trend says the TTS is 3,557-pound curb weight with a hard roof. Porsche says it's roughly that (3,565 maybe with the glass roof). At best, if all is to be believed, the Carrera T is 400 pounds lighter than the TTS. Makes sense, it has a lot less creature comforts and no front diff. Just the difference in leather interior weight would be surprising between the two.

I have no idea where you got that from. They are doing early, conservative tunes on the 991.2. I think every tuner that has posted a dyno sheet so far has said that. I don't know of a single "Stage 4" type tune even available for the 991.2 TTS yet. As far as I know, they are all in testing. 800hp++ 991.2 TTS cars are on their way.

You don't race dyno sheets at the track. You race cars. We'll see.

Yes, it seems that way. But numerous people have done into the 133-134 range, so it's not that far off.

This is on a nationally calibrated track. I was literally the first car on the track because the Honda crowd pull water out on to the launch pads and do lame attempts at burnouts, and they never clear it off. My very first launch still got wheel spin and I had the car in "limited" traction control mode, so the car fell on its face briefly when the 1-2 shift spun the tires again. I backed it up with two 10.8@134 runs with lots of wheelspin and then after that the track got a lot worse. DA was calculated 2200, I was running 91 octane fuel and absolutely stock right down to the manuals, toolboxes; OEM tire pressures.

I have no issues with anyone choosing to go with the Carrera T and modding it. Great project, great choice for some. But some of the information presented here and how it's being presented are like biting on tinfoil in the face of years doing this stuff. Just remember the old joke about Supras ... what's the difference between a Supra with a 400hp dyno chart and a Supra with a 1,400hp dyno chart? Nothing, they both run 12s.

 

I trapped 132 in my TTS without even trying. 10.51 @ 132 just rolling up and running. Heat soaked, half a tank of gas, 65 deg weather. Actually prepping and cooling the car down, I think I could get 135 in good weather and DA. Won't happen though. By the time fall gets here, it'll be modded

 

I think you are in for a shock a4... the 991.2 TTS are doing in the low 7s 60-130 no mods at all. Your car is going to haul ***.

 

Incredible trap! And that's stock? Wow, what was the DA? What track was that? Easily the fastest stock 991.2 slip.

None of my weights are off. I just linked you to Car and Driver showing a 3650 pound weight. Does the sunroof make a difference? Absolutely. I've seen guys weigh their 991.2 Carreras with sunroof, PDK, and fluids and come in at 3300 pounds. So you're telling me a 911 T with no sunroof, thinner glass, and the GT3 style seats won't shave the 150 pounds Porsche is saying it will? Guess we'll see when they are weighed but having a 500 pound lighter 911 than a 991.2 Turbo is no stretch whatsoever and that is a ton of weight. The Turbo is awesome but light it is not.

From tuners directly? I have no idea why you think the tunes are conservative with no proof. Tuners pushing the VTG's on race gas and E85 are being aggressive with the timing to get the gains. That is why you run those fuels.

I mean we could race for fun but we're far apart. A comparison won't be too hard to do.

Considering a stock 991.2 C2S does 120 in the 1/4 mile you really think adding almost 200 whp won't put it well ahead of a 991.2 Turbo S? Especially when it's lighter to begin with?

I think the fastest I saw was 132. Not far off was it just really good DA? pump fuel?

Whoops just read you said 2200 DA? That's...I don't know what to say. I can't make sense of that speed in 2200 DA based on what other 991.2's have shown but maybe we need more data. Awesome slip regardless.

What is tinfoil hat exactly? Maybe I just read more on the platform as I own one and mod it? I mean we're just at the beginning. You can count the number of Carreras with a turbo upgrade on one hand. The ECU was just barely cracked.

 

Oh man. I typed out a long thread. The board decided it took too long I guess, and logged me out, throwing away my post.

Showed that you probably have the Cabriolet weight for the TTS because even C&D lists weight at est. 3550lbs. Carrera T is only 11 pounds lighter than the base 2S. It's 44lbs lighter than a 2S with "comparable equipment." The T's not even close to 150lbs lighter.

We don't race dyno sheets, we race cars. There are plenty of examples where cars don't run the times people expect from the dyno sheet. There are many variables, let's just wait and see. I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm saying that I prefer to see actual results. I mean... let's face it, you're having trouble believing me and I have the time slips...

And two other time slips with *lots* of wheel spin - 133.1 and 133.9:

 

My ECU is in the hills in AR with The Wizard.