I am looking at purchasing one of these two cars for mostly a fun daily driving commute and I have found that the slightly newer 4S can be anywhere from 12k-20k more money. My question is what exactly is the difference and is the delta worth it considering condition and milage is equal? Am I making a mistake thinking these can be good DD's? Thanks so much for the advice.
Chris

 

all things being equal the 95 is more desirable than a 97 because it's an obd 1 and you won't have to worry about the sai cell issues. the 993 is a great daily driver. i couldn't imagine a better way to commute. personally i wouldn't do a c4. the c2 handling with the rear biased weight is a blast to drive; the c4 comparatively is plodding.

 

OBD I is definitely lower maintenance. They are not plagued with the direct injection issue from what I have heard.

If it is a daily driver the '95 is probably a better fiscal option. You don't want to rack up a ton of miles on an almost twice as expensive C4S, they are better garage queens.

 

Maintenance is the same for all 993's sans the turbo.

No 993 had direct injection.

You can get a narrow body, 96 & 97 993, that is ODB II & has 15HP more & WAY, WAY more midrange torque, due to the Varioram induction.

It's an old car, if you don't buy one with under 30kmi, then it's fine to drive. If you do get a under 30kmi car & drive it, I bet you will have all kinds of issues, as it's never been driven or worked on.


I think you mean 1997, & not 997? Anyway, both cars will suffer the same SAI issues, it hits all the cars, just no CEL on the 95, but the issue is still there.

C4 VS C2, go & drive both. The C4 is REAR biased. The torque transfer is 3-39% to the front. My stock C4 routinely beats Gt3's & 997 TT's at an Auto-X.

 

Oops, I was referring to the secondary air injection system. I do agree, Varioram is nice for performance, but I for a DD a non S car is probably the better choice unless money is not an option...

 

I just bought a 96 C4 as a DD. My first Porsche. It's fantastic! Truly the last of the real 'machines'. Newer ones don't have the same character or purity, in my opinion.

 

The 95C4 is OBD 1 so easier to modify the motor as the DME is less fussy. I ran mine without cats most of the time. The 97C4S is OBD II with varioram intake manifold yielding more midrange and overall power. Harder to modify the motor as the DME has a second set of sensors after the cats. The C4S also has the wider body and larger brakes from the turbo. The n/a cars really get very little benefit from the AWD other than added weight and understeer. If I was looking I'd find a C2S (widebody only built for MY 1997 and 1998).

 

Untrue, all of it, sans the WB & brake part.

You can modify any 993, with the same parts. The chips for the 95's are much cheaper, but you can still be chip a 96+. You can also run catless on the 96+ cars, you just remove the 2nd set of O2's from the exhaust, it will not throw a code, as the ECU is pretty dumb. No one should really be running catless now anyway, it's just not PC, & you only gain a couple of HP over a HFC (high flow cat), & I can still pass SMOG with my HFC.

993 C4's DO NOT understeer any more then a C2 993. The AWD system is not like the 964. In fact the C4 has way more cornering grip, & is way more planted/stable in corners. I Auto-X my 95 C4 & this year, I'm in 1st place for the year having won every Auto-X this year, in my STOCK 95 C4. In fact I normally beat GT3's, 997 Turbo's & lots of other "faster" cars with my stock 100,000+mi 95 C4.

 

Congrats! My C4 is also my DD, the only downside is storage.

 

[QUOTE=Stealth 993;3235800]Untrue, all of it, sans the WB & brake part.

You can modify any 993, with the same parts. The chips for the 95's are much cheaper, but you can still be chip a 96+. You can also run catless on the 96+ cars, you just remove the 2nd set of O2's from the exhaust, it will not throw a code, as the ECU is pretty dumb. No one should really be running catless now anyway, it's just not PC, & you only gain a couple of HP over a HFC (high flow cat), & I can still pass SMOG with my HFC.

993 C4's DO NOT understeer any more then a C2 993. The AWD system is not like the 964. In fact the C4 has way more cornering grip, & is way more planted/stable in corners. I Auto-X my 95 C4 & this year, I'm in 1st place for the year having won every Auto-X this year, in my STOCK 95 C4. In fact I normally beat GT3's, 997 Turbo's & lots of other "faster" cars with my stock 100,000+mi 95 C4.

Besides conceding the obvious, wider body and brakes on the C4S, you missed the fact your 95 993 does not have varioram as I’ve previously stated. Since you own an OBD 1 car what is your basis in modified OBD 2 cars? The DME is more complicated with the second set of O2 sensors. No way around that. I didn’t say it couldn’t be modified. You’ve conceded that when you stated it cost more to modify and OBD 2.

While driving around the local sport arena parking lot avoiding cones in second gear is fun, you can hardly use auto crossing experience as a true and complete test of the car’s complete handling ability. (You’re fortunate enough to have the Bremeton track available). Most auto journalist and members of this board will agree that awd under steers as Porsche designed it to do. The prior rear wheel drive cars (pre 1989) had a nasty tendency to get into snap throttle over steer (esp the turbo’s). More complicated suspension and wider rear tires were the factories quick fix but still didn’t eliminate the problem. (Ralph Nader after successfully killing the Corvair had Porsche in his sites). Porsche was determined to tame this handling issue even if it meant designing an awd system that induced under steer. If you’ve been auto crossing the car since new, you’ve got 16 years of seat time which maybe is more the cause of your success then the just car itself. With this much experience you should be winning your class (PCA SS7 but in your Zone 6 PNW region, I think it might still be S3). Of course there are makes of cars in other stock categories that have less hp, are lighter, are just RWD and they are posting lower times (think Lotus). Of course you’re beating Turbo’s. Putting a Porsche Turbo (any of them) on an auto course is a cruel under use of it capabilities. They are too heavy and their torque/power curves too high.


Less restriction in the exhaust allows more power. No cat’s (very non PC or you’ve been drinking lots of the PCA coolaid) allow more flow. You’ve even conceded this in that you’re running high flow cats. BTW I noticed a black car on your avatar and a silver one on the track. Do you own two?

To borrow the phrase of another member.
Under steer is hitting the wall with your front end
Over steer is hitting the wall with your tail end
Horsepower if how fast you hit the wall
Torque is how much of the wall you take with you after you hit it.

 

Congrats. You'll have lot of fun and the AWD will keep you out of trouble.

 

You should check out the production numbers on that year model. If I remember correctly you have yourself an extremely rare bird. In fact on one of the year models they only manufactured "1" 993 C4. All the focus was on the "S" cars. a guy local here in Montgomery has an extremely nice 993 C4 cab. I always liked the Silver calipers. They look really cool with the Porsche lettering in deviating interior color. So keep that in mind when having the brake jobs done. 993's were the first cars to show off fancy brakes in the automotive industry. Now you look back and it is one of the fads that Porsche cars started and is forgotten about today. Porsche still does it best though. Like the black painted windshield wipers. Porsche did it first, all for function and safety. Today its just the standard practice and many people don't really know why. I laugh when I see people in cars that have those chromed out windshield wipers just because they have tried to chrome every single thing possible... They clearly don't know what a real car is about.

 

You didn't read what I wrote. SANS the Wb & brakes. I stated that.
I do in fact have a Varioram & Non-Varioram car. My V-ram car is modified, & the C4 is stock. Based on what you said, you can in fact do anything to the ODBI that you can on the ODBII. Some of the ODBII parts (i.e. chips) are just more expensive. The ODBII ECU is still pretty stupid by most standards, even in the day. Unless money is "hard" the 96+ cars are NO HARDER just cost more for a couple of things. The C4's come stock with stiffer engine mounts, stiffer sway bar end links, & all have LSD's in them.

Do you Auto-X? Have you ever even driven a 993 C4 @ speed? Auto-X is in fact a definitive way to see how the car handles at speed. A lot of people bring race cars out for shake down runs. Do we reach 100mph? Some do, like the 997.2 Turbo. Most of it is 2nd gear, some is 3rd. This last Auto-X I was just about @ 80mph. On just about every track I have been on, taking a sharp corner @ 80mph is pushing the car.

Most auto writers are not drivers, they are in fact writers, & a good lot of them can't drive worth poop. I personally know a few & have a couple of cars of mine in car magazines. They can't drive worth crap. There are a few very good ones out there, just far & few in between. If you have ever driven a press car, you will now they BEAT TO ****!

Note, I NEVER said AWD 993's don't understeer. What I SAID WAS they don't understeer any more then a RWD 993. Pretty much since ODBII diagnostics, most cars out there are built in with understeer to keep the Lawyers happy. 993's don't have a happy tail due to the multi-link rear. When you get to learn how to drive them fast, you can steer them with the throttle, roll on gas for understeer & lift off for oversteer. What you are talking about above is the 964, AWD system, & it shares nothing with the 993's system. 964's are still pretty tail happy cars.

Yes, I am in S3, & do Bremerton, & a few other local tracks. I also do Pacific RW, PIR, Spokane Raceway, & have been to a few tracks in California. Used to do 4-6 track days a month. This is my 3rd season doing PCA Auto-X, & I've had my 95 C4 for a little over 3 years. I started Auto-Xing, to have fun with the car, for a much lower cost & time involvement. Open track is AWESOME, but gets very expensive, & beats up the car, & parts. I have only tracked the 97, not the 95.

FWIW, the 997.2 Turbo, is only around 150lbs heavier then my C4. Has almost 2x the HP & torque. Plus HUGE rubber & faster shifting then I can blink at. Just with the shifting alone, the car is at least .5 sec quicker, then add launch control, & the torque. The Turbo has more torque @ 2500RPM's then I have @ peak. The car in the proper hands can kill my little car, same for the GT3's.


Only on the track does then the 5hp make any differences. Most of us on the track are not even racing, we are learning. On the dyno, there is 3-8hp difference from HFC VS no cat. My car doesn't blow smoke, or smell. I can pass smog. It has nothing to do with PCA. I choose to run HFC on my car. Regardless of where you stand on it, we should all do our part. Having a smelly, smoky Porsche doesn't help us at all with the "A$$ Hole" stereotypes. On the track, or any other completive event, then run with out them. But most races now require all cars to have functioning cats.

Yes, as said, I have a 95 C4, & a 97 C4S.

We can disagree till the cows come home. My point is the C4's are NO LESSER a 993 then the RWD ones. They are in fact quite fast capable cars. Still capable to showing the newer 911, what's up. If there is snow or rain, the C4's (even the 964) kick some A$$! I didn't even want a C4, but am very happy to found mine. Would not trade it for anything but a new GT3.

 

good points. we get it. the car is fast and you're fast. what we're saying is simple: all things being equal it's more desirable to have a 95 than an obd 2 and it's more desirable (ie resale value) to have a c2 than a c4 in a most porschefile's opinion. don't take it so personally. you have two great cars. and yes i know about the sai issue in all 993's --- who cares. it's the cel that matters.

 

I have never AX. In the mid to late 70’s I ran in SCCA Formula Ford. I had a Lola T340 for two seasons (one season with the dreaded R decal) and then a Crossle 32F for two seasons. SCCA stated purpose was to promote the sport of racing as a hobby. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view) Formula Ford had become extremely popular in the US as a proving ground to move up to a professional series. As I was more interested in the fun factor, it was difficult to be competitive against teams with full time aspiring pro drivers with lots of sponsorship money (new tires for each race and refreshed motors several times a season). Going to Sears Point (Infineon) or occasionally Laguna every weekend to practice was just not enough to get seriously fast. So I retired at the ripe old age of 29 as I needed to keep my Monday to Friday job. After having spending 4 years of time open wheel racing, AX held no interest for me. I did some track time trials in several of my Porsches, but as you rightfully pointed out serious track time puts a real hurt on the car. I think AX is a wonderful hobby/sport, but racing the clock (either AX or time trials) never presented a meaningful challenge to me. I’m sure others find it very rewarding (and expensive considering some of the money I’ve seen spent on dedicated AX cars). Chasing a car with a better driver (and most likely a better car) presented a more meaningful learning experience. I actually wish I had the Crossle back to race in vintage classes.

In regards to if there is more or less under steer in AWD 993 vs a rear wheel drive 993, let’s just say gentlemen agree to disagree. I wish you the best of luck on your future AX endeavors and encourage you will try some PCA or PCO club racing someday.