I need your help: I found a 2003 996 TT I really like, price is right; color; options-etc. it is really clean and I want to buy it- Now. However, the diagnostic has the following numbers:

Range 1- 18245 Ignitions
Range 2- 145 Ignitions
outside rpm range- 682.3 hrs (upper range)
outside rpm range - 205 (lower range)

According to the seller, Porsche has issued a warranty on the car following the Range 2 over-revs.

I have read some other posts with varying degrees of explanation and clarity on the subject.

My questions are this:
1. It seems from the calculations, the Range 2 over-rev numbers are not very serious; what do you all think?

2. Has anyone actually experienced an engine with some amount of Range 2 over-rev history that has then had a shortened life (all else being equal).

I ask because it seems to me that the difference between hitting a 7k redline and a 7.25k redline is not very much and I always felt Porsche built some pretty beasty engines. Until ripped off, my 993 felt asleep unless I pushed it.

Note- For those who were discussing redlines and whether they are 'hard and fast numbers'- my experience is NO. On my M3, it depends on how fast the accel curve is when I hit it. I have hit that one more times than I can remember and I have 150k miles on it without any valve tap/funky noises, etc. However, I have not hit it on a downshift: just always while enjoying the pleasure zone of a truly lovely engine.

I appreciate all your help.
David

 

Have a PPI done. Have a very experienced body shop look at it and do a carfax. These cars are built to be driven and those numbers actually look good.

 

Thanks-
I have done the carfax, and PPI by PAG dealer came back clean except these numbers- which raised the flag for me and thus the question. I am concerned my local dealer will say otherwise if I have a problem but more importantly, I don't want to end up with a problem later. There is another year on the warranty. By the way- any opinions out there on the best dealer for serice in the SF Bay Area??

 

To be honest I don't think anyone really knows (for sure) what the Range 2 over-revs mean (I was originally told this is missing a shift on the way down...like 4th to 2nd). There has been quite a bit of discussion and some will say stay far from this, but I believe Jeff (MidnightTT) reported that he recorded range 2s by over revving on the way up. I think the number you have in either case is small, and if they are giving you the warranty go for it. Cheers.

 

FWIW, my Range 2's keep going up and I have *never* missed a downshift. Just from hard upshifts at redline, and sometimes when 1st escapes from me.

 

Thanks Stat and Jimmer- After looking online at hundreds of them for sale, I really want this car- just 20k in miles and super clean. I haven't seen much info from folks who have Range 2 numbers- and then blow their engine or tranny- presumably as a result.

 

Has your redline been raised? The range 2 number is the number of ignitions above redline, so if your redline has been raised, even if you haven't missed a shift your range 2 numbers could go up by spinning your motor up to its new redline...just a thought.

 

Same redline. Lost 2nd gear in the wet yesterday and probably recorded a couple more. Will download sometime this week and find out.

 

Even if your rev limiter remains stock, forward inertia can carry you higher than the rev limiter. Very easily in first or second.

I spoke with Todd Z at Evo at lengths about Range 2's. He told me that these motors are damn near bullet proof. You have to miss a shift (ie 5th to 2nd) to do any damage.

It is worth taking it to a great body shop and making sure there are no problems. Sounds like the car is solid.

 

Thanks Folks- so glad I joined. Good to hear about forhamiltons conversation with Todd Z; that is and was my opinion about these engines. The PPI did state 'no evidence of major body damage' but also stated 'minor damage on the front spoiler' which the seller said was just bottom scrapes from parking berms, etc. If that is the case, I am not going to fix that because I know I will scrape it too- I always do. However- do you suggest a great body shop because they will see something we will not? It sounds like you have some experience here and I'd appreciate anything you can share.
David

 

Good body shops can easily spot repairs and can paint meter the car. That is the last piece of the puzzle. Carfax will not pick up a repair unless it was claimed on insurance.

 

Do keep in mind that there really is no defined "PPI". Heck, a service manager can do it from his desk with the car in the service drive!

I had them do the written CPO checklist.

"no evidence of damage" is a pretty large loophole. Prolly OK, but if you have concerns had a body guy look at it. (Dealers may not have experienced paint/body staff who know what to look for.)

On the over-revs, the hours should tell you when that last occured (I think). A dealer may deny an engine failure that had a recent type2- but one that was 6000 miles earlier (120 hours ago) should be OK.

I actually called my local dealer, and spoke with the service manager for a bit of a 'discussion'... I wanted to get a sense of what he felt about T1/T2s. He was cool. low numbers and events well in the past would not be issues.

I wound up finding one with zero T2s, but that was just luck.

A

 

Thanks ard and forhamilton-
from what I was told, the range 2 occurred @ 12,000 miles ago and before PAG resold the car with a warranty to the seller. I'm actually not too worried about it now and I plan on buying the car later this week. It's a very nice one and I have faith in the 911 engine and mechanicals. Once I get it up here I'll upload some photos for you all to view. Have a good holiday- David

 

Hi All

Thank you to all those that helped me with the Range 2 over-rev issue: I ended up buying the car. 2003 996tt Polar Silver with Sierra Beige interior; low miles; cream vehicle; CPO. My girlfriend and I drove from Tucson to Las Vegas up through rte 93- excellent, big winding road through the high desert- lots of visibilty, no cars- great apex's. Spent the weekend and then back to the Bay Area- Rte 58 also a dream. The car is a beast- I love it. My girlfriend was so smitten with the car, as soon as we got back, she bought a 2003 911 Targa- 6 speed; 12k miles; one owner. Beautiful, wonderful- and very different car.

Thank you cgard... for your kind PM- I couldn't reply because I don't have enough posts. I'll pass on your message to Bud.

Anyway- here's some shots.