From what I know... and there is a Porsche with 900 rwhp using water/meth injection is that it kills the plugs fast.... like every 1500 miles. This is what the owner told me.. and he is on his 17th Porsche now I think.. 4 of which he currently owns... i think he knows well.
He does not care about the plugs since he changes his own. for those that do not it can get expensive.
just a thought since no one brought it up.
markski

 

nice setup, ace...

(Julio's kits are topshelf, with overkill engineered throughout)

i never factored in evaporation (although i do see how it could be an issue).

my reason for 100% meth was the ease of not having to mix it

if tuned right, i think it could be great on a TT...

IF

 

Is there a benefit in spraying the meth/water on just the intercooler and not into the throttle body?

My thought on this is that if there is a positive side and no remapping of the ecu it would be a very simple mod to produce more horsepower for an intercooled car.

What are your thoughts??

 

The bennifit with spraying into the intake stems back to a lesson I rember from grade 7 science class - Change of State equations. The amount of energy required to change water from a liquid to a gas is very large. The energy consumed dramatically reduces intake temps. Spraying on your intercoolers does not achieve this.

 

I have NEVER heard of meth/water killing plugs. I ran my Z06 for 7K miles on pure meth, on the roadcourse, with no issues. I've run my STI for over 8K miles without issues.

That Porsche-owner has a TUNING problem...not a meth/water problem. It's either too rich, gumming up the plugs....as is often the case when running WI without a proper tune - or it's too lean with detonation and it's melting the tips....again a tuning problem.

Formula 1 ran WI until it was outlawed due to too much power. Every car in the WorldRally uses WI.

The best tool in the world isn't worth dirt if the person using it doesn't know how.... It's all in the tuning.

Be good,
TomK

 

Sure, my car comes stock with an intercooler sprayer. A one-gallon tank in the trunk holds water that is pumped to a nozzle that sprays on the intercooler, cooling the actual core of the IC...this helpsfight heatsoak of the intercooler.
You could use a WI kit to be an intercooler sprayer and have it triggered by boost or MAF. When a certain boost level is reached, it sprays....
If I am not able to find a tuner who can dyno-tune a TT when I eventually own one, I'll mount a WI kit to spray on my intercoolers.

NO need to put meth in the intercooler spray, unless in the winter, and then you can just use winter windshield washer fluid to keep it from freezing.

You won't find any gain in hp with this type of set-up, but you'd have a safer running motor in the heat or when doing multiple runs....a more repeatable power delivery.

Be good,
TomK

 

Two very serious problems here.

1. You never spray methanol or water while not under throttle or boost. The water will obviously come out of suspension and pool. When you go WOT or under boost the water will pit the pistons or worse hydrolock the engine. The methanol will over rich the engine since it's a fuel. You will stall either way.

2. You never spray methanol before the intercooler. Water will come out of suspension (see #1) upon hitting the core. Methanol coming out of suspension, muchless pooling in an aluminum intercooler is bad. You do know methanol eats aluminum right? Sprayed right before the throttle body and into an aluminum intake manifold and head is perfectly fine under boost as it evacuates quickly.

100% methanol supresses knock the best. Methanol adds power and fuel in itself. Water takes up space.


John H

 

The key is being able to tune for methanol/water injection and also having equal distribution which is important if you are not tuning individual cylinders. On cases like the Supra's where its a long intake manifold and the manifold doesn't distribute the methanol equally tuning becomes an issue and typically motor failure occurs. Other applications have better sucess. You have to be very careful before just bolting on a meth/water kit and make sure you are ready to spend time tuning and making sure the setup is safe and correctly working.

 

That makes perfect sense, thanks for the heads-up.

 

Since I dont plan on doing 1/4 runs this mod probably is not needed for my car.
I was hoping to simulate the weather the past few days. 30 degree temperatures in south Louisiana has made a noticeable power increase in my car.

I would have assumed adding a intercooler spray would increase horsepower. Thats why I ask instead of assuming.

 

Cooler intake air is more dense air and does increase HP.
Using an inter cooler sprayer is an affordable option to larger inter cooler(s).
I have a 1.5+ gal windshield washer reservoir shaped like a spare tire.
It fit under and inside the spare tire on a 98' Mitsu GSX. This could be used
where the spare tire was removed from the 996TT. Hum... maybe a good idea.

 

I've tuned numerous vehicles with i/c sprayers, water injection and methanol injection kits. They all have their benefits and limitations. You need to remember that it is another system that can fail, so you want to be sure that you know that going in. I have made incredible power on boosted engines using methanol injection and 91 octane fuel... but if that kit fails and the failsafes (if you were able to utilize them) don't shut things down quickly enough ... you guessed it... immediate engine damage. Things can happen very quickly in boosted engines!

Distribution is difficult with many of these kits... most of the intake manifolds on fuel injected engines give little regard to "wet flow". They are not designed with the intent of keeping fluid in suspension with the air so this can lead to problems as far as equal distribution.

 

All excellent points and I tend to agree that it makes a complicated car even more so.

 

No doubt there is risk doing anything other than "how the factory intended", but one doesn't need to squeeze the weasel-**** out of a tune for every last fraction ofpower...meth is not nitrous. Running a good failsafe and tuning below the line of engine failure, that goes without saying.

Distribution...should not be an issue. With a quality nozzle, a proper install, and a set-up that is not ingesting massive amounts of spray, a sanely-tuned car will not have issue with distribution.

I really cannot believe the reluctance to use WI. Octane dilution, spark-plug destructon, aluminum corrosion ( you do realize that winter mix washer fluid is up to 40% methanol), and now distribution ...that would only result from a poor placement of the nozzle with too much spray... unreal amount of paranoia...WTF?
You know what would happen if a fuel-injectors clogged or gummed up from running race-gas in a car that's only used for grocery getting??? Whos pulling their injectors to be flowmatched every season??? I guess the factory knock-control is good only for the "factory" parts....

A 6gph nozzle being driven by a 150psi pump that sprayed 50/50 from a progressive controller that wastriggered by MAF or boost and a very safe tune.... I'd be willing to bet 50whp/50wtq , or more....probably more...without breaking a sweat. Have a flow-meter failsafe connectedto your boostcontrol...you're good.

Be good,
TomK

 

I hear you and I am in agreement. I introduced a friend with a dyno shop
to Snow Performance 2 yrs ago. He has installed 2 dozen + Meth/water
inject systems without 1 problem. From Supercharged Cobra SVT Mustangs
to Mini Cooper S with excellent results. I have brought this up to Porsche
tuners several times with mixed responses similar to what we hear on
this thread. I think no experience or any knowledge is the reason.
Shortly after visiting with Chris @ TurboKraft about WI, I found a new
speed record set in Germany with a Porsche 240+mph with guess what,
Yep, you got it, meth/water injection. It seems that tuners don't want to
venture beyond current excepted performance mods. And don't want to
fess up that they don't know anything about WI. So they PooPoo WI and
pull something out of the hat of why you shouldn't consider it.
Keep up the Fight, you have some in your corner.