Broker: I think that if we were in a criminal court proceeding, the burden of proof would be on the prosecution's side.....but when it comes to warranties, if they deny you, the burden of proof seems to shift to you to show and prove that the modification didn't somehow cause the problem.

It's not only a case of showing that it directly caused the problem, but they can also argue proximate cause which would bring in indirect issues as well. Porsche has the big guns on retainers and together with Porsche's no good will policy....you're up against some pretty formidable folks and established prior practices.

How many times have you read..."If someone wants to initiate a class action suit, I'll join in on it". Who and where are those "someones" who are going to put up the money, time, and resources it requires to take on Porsche's corporate attorneys? It seems easier to express frustration and wishful thinking.

 

If brought to court, these type of claims are civil lawsuits . If Porsche denies to cover under warranty, it's called breach of contract. You sue them for your lost with repair bills, they will have to proof that your modifications cause the damange. The judge will then decide who picks up the tap.

 

I had 1 year left on my warranty when I decided enough is enough..I modded the heck out of it. Incidentally, the clutch master/slave/accumulator went and they warranteed it anyway, as they new what I did to the car had NO bearing on the clutch hydraulics failing. Lucky I guess. My warranty is finally expired and I am now on my own!!!

 

gotta remember why you bought the car if you enjoy drivning a stock tt . then your fine and can still have fun, but you could have bought a stock vette you would be (the one with the blower)faster and have saved quite a few bucks....once you mod you will never go back.... my car is always in the race file , (100 oct) the stroke has kept me off the streets for now but it won't be long now. life is to short to miss the thrill if modding for the feel of a good warranty

 

".....life is to short to miss the thrill if modding...."

Steve should know about this....he just went thru a stroke, so his words about life being short are personally relevant. I was really conservative when I first bought my TT and didn't want to touch it until the warranty rant out.....then you run into folks like Statsman (who tells you his car is "all stock"...yeah right!!) and others who enjoy the added thrill of more ummph. I broke down and went for the mods before the warranty ran out, and am extremely happy I did. I'm 68 and still get a thrill out of the blistering acceleration and sophisticated sound of a Europipe and headers....a few DE days....and running the twisties in a car that will outrun most of what's on the road today. As Shakespeare said, but not in the same context...Aye, tis a consumation truly to be wished.

 

chuck it's nice to see that somone is older the i am. are you going to euro sunday in roseville ? am going to try and drive the car today , if no go i'll take my wife's cayenne it's a tip

 

You can't outsmart the factory. There is only one reason to have a program that switches back to "stock", and it's dishonest IMO. If you're gonna tune the car be prepared to live with the consequences. I had a GIAC flash in my car and it was ok. The only reason I went with them was Champion has a good relationship with Porsche and a lot of dealers sell this flash. There may be some small degree of protection there, but I'm no lawyer.
I'm currently in the midst of a Ruf upgrade, part of which involves a new ecu with the RUF name proudly displayed on it. They have nothing to hide, I kinda like that.

 

I've read these discussions for years on various forums, and ironically just had a conversation with my dealer about it yesterday. The 2 things I know for sure: (1) there are a hell of a lot of anecdotes from people who may or may not have lost the warranty; (2) I've never seen an official Porsche NA statement. Until we can get #2 I imagine we'll get these threads over and over and over.

 

I did not worry about warranty with a flash. The cars are way overbuilt for this level of hp and provided car is broken in before flash, it is unlikely that you will have any problems attributable to flash mod.

 

Steve: I've seen your car at IPB. Ron is a great guy and does great work. Your car is beautiful. White has long been one of my favorite colors. I plan on attending the EuroSunday but will probably take the 930 slant just because it's a bit out of the ordinary. Tomorrow's event is geared towards the Britts. l look forward to seeing you there and am glad you're getting out and soaking up some vitamin D via sunshine.

 

chuck two doors down or up from me is a red 930 slant i'll tell about the event (he bought his new)

 

TE Joe:

Here's a direct extract from the Porsche Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) #2470 dated 5/01. I think the language is rather specific to tampering with certain parts of the car.



[IMG]aoladp://MA25589049-0001/tampering.png[/IMG]

 

Bottomline is this...you can't expect Porsche or anyone, to warranty something that is NOT what they origianally sold, as much as we want them to. They happened to honor my warranty, but I expected them NOT to. It was a pleasant surprise. I would NOT have been mad or disappointed if they denied me. Put yourself in their shoes, you send a car out with 420hp and it comes in for warranty work with 600hp. Gee, I wonder why this part failed? I believe it is their right, and they TELL from the git-go.

Just my .02...

 

Personally I'm not looking to be dishonest about hiding a mod when it is directly linked to the failure. What I'm worried about is a company completely voiding a warranty when the mod is clearly not linked to the problem. I don't know how much this actually happens but I recently heard a story about that happening with Ford.

 

Some of you PM'd me and said the link wouldn't work...so here's the exact text from the Porsche Technical Bulletin that I referenced above. You can also go to the cited TSB and see for yourself:

"Information: Modifications to the hardware and software of the DME control module is not allowed.

Any alterations in the electronics or software (e.g. in order to improve the engine performance) may have various effects, including a change in the permissible values for fuel consumption or exhaust and
noise emissions.

Starting with MY’02 911 Turbo (996) and MY’02 911 (996), you are able to perform a system test to see whether the DME map data has been tampered with.

PST2 software version 12.0 and higher is able to perform this function.

Tampering with the DME map data will void the warranty."

That's the exact text....and I also happen to agree with the folks who say that if you screw around with the car and add performance modifications...you do so at your own risk. I try to think of it in terms of.....If I owned the company...would I want to be absorbing the costs associated with fixing things that were either directly or indirectly caused by someone messing with the product I produced? We all know these cars are built tough...but they do have limits. Warranties are issued within certain known engineering specifications....and the cars are usually set up so that the performance parameters easily fall within specs that the car can handle for the period of the warranty. Dodge used to put governors on their diesels when they offered the 100K mile warranty. They did it because the trucks were known to be able to easily handle 100K miles if they weren't over rev'd. People would disable the governors for performance, then look to Dodge when something broke.

If you mess with the engine's established performance parameters, then you should do so at your own risk, accepting the premise that if it breaks, you eat it. That's called consequence of action, and it's something we try as parents to teach our kids....be responsible for your own actions. Now hopefully we can move on to another subject.