I think some reconsideration is in order here. If you look at the one lap, even Marks lightened 996 Turbo with some good downforce and loads of power that's able to beat it by 10mph on the straight is down 2+ seconds a lap on equal tires.

This car is nothing to play with, they took the drag racing mantra for american cars and threw it in the trash, that car is plain crazy running low 1:40's maybe even high 1:30's at CMP on PS2's. That's unreal.

Of course it's modded, but a stock one wont be too far behind. Sorry, but the GT2 doesnt have much chance of beating this car, too much downforce. This car is stock cup car territory easily.

 

I think you're on to something Dez. I don't think the latest GT2 is going to be able to keep pace. I think Porsche is going to have to up the ante, big time. I also think the best thing that could happen to porsche fans is the HP wars currently taking place in the auto industry. Porsche is gonna have to step up or else.

Mike

 

I think Porsche HAS stepped up in many different way's, they don't need HP wars too make fine drivers cars and all out great performers (dare I say benchmarks)

Don't sell the GT2 short is all I am saying!

 

I'm not selling the GT2 short, but how do you expect it to beat a car with that much downforce? I'm just asking, the 08 viper is already real fast with no down force. There are so many tracks (watkins glen comes to mind) that the aero dynamic advantage will be something incredible.

The GT2 will have much more mechanical grip, and better turning radius as a result of the rear engine configuration of the Porsche (grip) and a smaller wheelbase (turning radius). I think the GT2 may have the edge in straight line speed. I think the DF of the Viper if being used, which it will need to be, will scrub quite a bit of speed. The regular 08 Viper and GT2 will be close in a straight line, I think the GT2 will be faster even than it and with the drag created by the DF the Viper will lose even more. But not too much.

I suspect from high speeds the added downforce on the ACR will make for much shorter stopping distances. Vipers have great brakes too.

Vipers tend to have sucky gearing, so I think the powerband and gearing will be in favor of the GT2, and Porsche have always done more with less so the GT2 will beat the 08 Viper pretty good I think, but In looking at all the factors I dont see how it would beat the ACR.

Technically speaking, if anyone has any technical ideas to add, to the contrary, then I'd like to hear them.

 

No, they haven't. When they make a 600-650HP 911 that will compete with these new beasts, they will have stepped up. Until then, they're the bench mark every manufacture will toute as being beaten... We see it already in the GT-R ad campaigns. If that's "acceptable" for you, then have at it. Me, I'm a Porsche fan second and a CAR fan first. Porsche better keep pace... I'm sure they'll step up to the plate, but if they don't...

Mike

 

Man, I'm loving the way some of you guys think! I hope Porsche is taking notes, and I'm hoping CAFE/Environmental issues can be resolved in the process so that we can all enjoy the performance of these cars now and in the future.

The big question here is: When are we gonna see these cars side-by-side in action? That will make may day for sure.

 

Agree 100%. It's so damn easy to safely make 600 HP from these cars. Porsche really needs their butt-kicked for not making that much power in their production cars.

 

Insurance my friends The insurance companies would have a hay day with our rates if they made that kind of power.

 

I would think that someone that can afford to purchase a brand-new car with 600 HP can afford the higher insurance that goes along with with it, as well as the higher gas prices.

 

True True.. **** with that much HP it should have a better 6th gear, like the LSx cars so we can get 25-28mpg I know your probably enjoying that 6th gear cruising in the Z06. My brother still averages 26-28mpg on the freeway in his 427 C5.

 

Wait until these factory 600 hp cars last for 100-144 k miles like the 911 motors will. People already cant drive and many dont know how to handle a 911, we see many a crunched GT2/3 at track days etc as well.

I think Porsche getting into hp wars is never going to happen, it never has, not from the factory. And the thing about it is the people that buy 911's and wont accpet anything else from Porsche (the large majority) will continue to buy them even if they were mid pack.

This GT-R hype will die down once it starts having problems, they cant have a Nissan tech hiding in the woods for every customer. The ACR and ZR-1 are limited run, the ZR-1 is planned, the Viper is likely to cancel production altogether before there can be too many ACR's out there. Porsche can always go back to making a GT1 or CGT type car that's too nice and expensive to beat up on the track.

600 hp 911's are not likely to happen anytime soon (which likely means never with CAFE). Certainly not the TT, the GT2 would have gotten there eventually, but It would not have likely been the 998.

 

Blasphemy!!
















Just kidding!

Lets hope we are all wrong about the future regarding CAFE standards. Its not so much that everyone wants to see Porsche escalate the horsepower wars any(exception being the GT1) but we all know that a 600hp GT2 is equivalent to a 700hp Vette, Viper or Ferrari. Kind of.

Back on topic...

 

Porsche now has VW to dilute the CAFE requirements.

Greg A

 

Insurance has nothing to do with it. I just priced insurance (on the phone with my real live agent, not some bull**** website lie) on an 2008 ACR Viper and the price was $400 more per year than the $1078 I'm paying now on the 996 Turbo. That's a $400 increase over a 7 year old car... If I could sell my car tomorrow for $75K, I'd go out and buy an ACR Viper or a Z06 and have a chat with LG motorsports...

Insurance isn't the key. Porsche could easily bump the power and there is to much evidence from the aftermarket to support reliability of them at boosted levels.

Mike

 

I think a 911 needs to go into a different direction. There was not enough change between 996 and 997, especially from a performance aspects. When other car manufacturers were dramatically increasing their cars power, Porsche only increased it slightly, thus, it fell behind. They could get away with it with 997, but 998 needs to be on a whole other level... they can't just make the new 911 have 370hp and turbo have 530hp (same increase as 996-997).

What they should do first and foremost is to switch to a Gallardo/R8 mid-engined platform. This will allow them to use V8 engines and have the mid-engined balance (R8 is already said to be a better driver's car than 911, it won every handling comparison). Because of Porsche's partnership with VW Group (cayenne/toureg/Q7 all same platform), it is very possible. For the base 911, they could use a 440hp+ N/A V8, and for 911 turbo, they could add twin-turbo's for 600hp+. Then for GT2, they could do a V10 or V12 with 700hp+, which is only possible from a mid-engined layout. This way, they would capture the performance crown once again! 911 does not need to be 2+2, they could fill in the gap for 2+2 with a panamera coupe (it would also have far more rear-seat room, 911's rear seats are barely usable for adults). This move will also allow them to use the existing 360hp 3.8L engines for cayman/boxster, which also desperately need a power increase. C'mon Porsche... 911 needs to be a benchmark sports car, not a freakin GT!

So basically, here is what I think the 998 lineup should look like:

Base 911: N/A V8 430hp+
911 Turbo: Twin-turbo V8 600hp+
911 GT2: N/A V10 or V12 700hp+
Next Porsche Supercar: Twin-turbo V10 or V12 900hp+