Hi...Sent you a PM. Tim

 

Hi... Sent you a PM.. Tim

 

Not true. Todd @ Protomotive is best known for his software. He is a true genious when it comes to the Bosch Motronic ECU's. He custom tunes ECU's versus an off the shelf tune that many other vendors provide. This is not to say that an off the shelf tune is bad, but they do tend to leave power on the table.

 

+1, you can't go wrong with Todd...may be one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet.

 

Im not so sure I would say the GIAC is a waste of money. From my perspective, it gave me a car with an exhaust upgrade thats running at around 500 crank HP (so Im told). The car has very usable and power that goes along the entire curve and is not extremely peeky. You may want to look up the European car issue of the Clash of the Titans (april of 2004). Its a great comparison of 9 996tt tuners with all kinds of suspension tunes and engine mods. The author states that the protomotive car, while extremely fast, was difficult to modulate on the track because of the peekyness of the power hit. Granted that was 4 years ago and Im sure protomotive R&D has been coming up with all kinds of scenarios for the user..I guess though that if you asked the protomotive folks to program a power curve that suits you, they could probably do that too. BTW, 3k for a flash is a rip..I paid $1800 for mine.

 

A flash that lists for $3k (for GT2/X50) that won't provide a map for what is one of the most popular turbo upgrades out there for the gt2/x50 (24/18) is, in my ever-so-humble opinion a complete and total waste of money.

Shame on them for gouging and holding customers hostage. Shame on me for falling for it.

I'm guessing you have a K16 car. ~$2k is about the going rate (also, a rip when you compare to flashes for other brands). However, X50/GT2 owners get the shaft even harder, as they get reamed for another $1k on average. Just because they can.

 

Yes, for his car at that price it would be a waste of money, but if he gets the GIAC flash at "market price", then its OK.

BTW, most places will negotiate with you, especially if your doing other mods to the car.

 

Well my idea was just to get some easy power from GIAC on my stock X50 initially, and then have it re-flashed (for +/-$300) as I add incremental modifications.

 

A reasonable plan, as long as you know going in that the best bang-for-the-buck turbo upgrade out there for your car will not be available to you as an option.

 

This was one of the biggest factors for me in picking who to go with for my tune.

Ultimately I picked Tony at EPL for 4 major reasons:
1. I got a true custom dyno tune (with before and after dyno results)
2. No matter what direction I went for upgrade (fueling, different turbos, water injection, something completely new and unheard of, etc.), Tony could custom re-tune for the cost of the dyno time (and I don't have to worry if he already has a "map" for it).
3. His price was cheaper than anyone (aside from upsolute)
4. He told me that if I got sick of the package and wanted to return my car to stock (or even if I decided to ditch his gear and go with another tuner), he'd transfer my tune to any other car and only charge me an hour of labor.


Tunes should not be disposable.

 

From my understanding.. Once you go GIAC you have to follow along with their stages in order to continue upgrading. I had a GIAC Stage 2 tune, but when I put my GT3071/K24's on I had to change to Softronic because I needed a custom tune done.

 

That's exactly how I did it. Flash first.

I was very unhappy with the performance and actually blew apart one of my stock diverter diverter valves on the way to get the billet wastegates installed. Talk about great timing!

Then I got an exhaust, and was still thinking this can't be it.

Thanks to speed Gallery, I did the upgraded wastegate springs. That's what made that car really come alive! The difference is indescribable.

IMO anyone who does not have wastegate upgrades on a K24 or 16/24 car is really doing themselves a big disservice. They are the key to brining the entire package together and having solid low end boost that stays consistent run after run to redline. I don't believe anyone who says thay have 600HP on K24s without the wastegate upgrade. Show me your street tuned, 91 octane dyno and I will believe you. Mine is below.

GIAC is propably not your best option if you plan on going beyond K24s, unless maybe you get the EVO versions which do have upgrade paths? The biggest thing keeping me from 24/18gs and full fuel system is having to buy another 3K flash. I'm with JT2 on this one! GIAC isn't upgradeable and I was under the imprtession it was the MOST upgradeable option at the time. It does seem to work very well however. I have no other complaints after 3 years.

 

4CED INDUCTION,
It is all depends on where you want to go. Most people who are doing mods are power hungry; you will probably go higher than just a simple ECU flash. jt2 got his point, if you want to maximize your K24, you should probably go with something other than GIAC tune... and that will save you money in the future (if you go higher than 600hp). Since I had a K16, my decision was easier because I had to swap out the turbos anyway.

 

Thanks for all the replies.

I think the reading between the lines that I didn't catch before was the fact that GIAC only works with preset stages and/or modifications. Like one member pointed out, if I wanted to do the k24/18g mod, or water injection, or whatever, GIAC doesn't have the flexibility I may require.

My challenge however is that I do have a GIAC dealer in town that can service the flashes, but there are no other Motronics (or any other) dealers that I would trust tuning my car on a dyno.

 

my less than $.02:

History...I started with GIAC tune back when they were one of the only tunes available. I eventually wanted more and talked to several tuners. They were very instrumental in helping me decide what I wanted to be ultimately (how I want to drive, where, etc.). Once I decided where I wanted to be...I could choose paths. My tuner actually did give me some credit for my previous tune as I modded.

My advice is to decide are you willing to mod incrementally without concern for efficiency...then the order and what products you use are less a concern. If you want to do it most efficiently and cost effectively...decide where you want to be and develop a plan to get there incrementally. What ever you do have fun and be satisfied with your decisions. Cheers.