+ 1 for Kevin at UMW.
(call and talk to him...and to each vendor...it is not all hp...his hp is at least equal..it is also about torque, load, semi load....not all the data you need to tune is from a dyno with pulls.....)

 

Blah, Blah, Blah

Life begins at about 1.35 bar and 105 octane.

With just a flash and K16's you do not need to get too deep into high octane fuel consumption. Run Premium and watch your boost. I would not want more than
1.1 bar peak and about 1.0 bar hold.

MK

 

I had a GIAC sponsored shop keep my car for 4 weeks trying to find the right clutch to go with the UMW tune... In the end the lead tech ended up with the exact clutch setup UMW recommended... In the end, the guy stated flat out that he was skeptical about the claims I made on the power, and then was humbled when the same clutch setups that worked on his "gold standard" GIAC tune simply weren't enough for my UMW tune.

That told me all I need to know about Kevin at UMW and his competition in the software tuning market.

Mike

 

All other things being equal (cars, fuel, max boost), a custom dyno and/or road tuned car will ALWAYS make more power vs. off the shelf. And custom is NOT telling the tuner what you have on the car. Custom is having the car there in person and tweaking the timing, boost, AFR, Intake temps, etc. to match the EXACT car. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something. I still don't get why this concept is revolutionary here. In every other tuner car market (and forum), this is a given.

 

Michael, With all due respect, You can't make that claim stick... You're telling us what EPL is telling you, period. Until you've done what every other individual has done (1/4 mile, dyno, 60-130MPH) you can't event make the claim that you're positively making the power one dyno session gave you. I previously owned a C5 Vette that was tuned in the manor you describe. It's funny, because now that market is starting to get into the "mail order" tune business. I've seen cars in person, Dyno tuned only to have drivability go out the window, or other aspects creep up that can't bee seen on a dyno. Further, the parameters for tuning the Porsche DME can't be compared to tuning an Audi, Honda, or Subaru...

Anyone who tells YOU otherwise is selling a product, period.

Mike

 

I would take Kevin's tuning over EPL's in a money bet any day of the week. EPL is good. Kevin's code is based on sources that I cannot discuss but are shall we say the types that win F1 races........get real guys. His contacts in the industry are amazing. Even if Kevin leaves 3% on the table, his table is bigger and stronger.

I want to see data. Until then, I am happy with my bias(es). And, no one will change that sans data comparing the same car with only a tune variation.

Mikelly's experiences tell me Upsolute and Giac are inferior to UMW. The only other person beside Kevin that I think might be close is Todd at Proto. I think I said this a long time ago...it is likely the best guys will get equal to UMW code, but not better. Why, because it is optimized. In that is F1 experience of years and years. And years. And years. And lots of time blowing up things. Until you have a tuner that has blown things up and has coders that have raced with limitless budgets....you won't get to UMW in a short time period.

I could buy the dyno and the software to program the ECU if I had the money. And I could optimize with the local speed shop. But, I would not be in the same league as racing engineers. What do you think is in that code....it is not a small shop custom tuning things. In fact, if you want F1 syle code, that is as close as the 996TT market has. I don't know what Todd has, but I suspect it is the same kind of stuff. In the world of 996TT cars, there are three tuners that are the pillars, Kevin, Todd, and engine builder Stephen Kaspar. Mr. Switzer is new, but is likely to be coming into the same range if not there. Done. Each will cost you to do engine work that is "real"....but they'll stand behind it if you blow up too.

Now, I have talked to a person who was in charge of BMW's racing Bosch tuning program (F1 incuded) for over 8 years...the "custom" tuning done is not enough to cover the full gamit of issues in a Bosch system. There is what is happening when you LET OFF the pedal, engine load in heat, each gear, going up and down hill, temps, dirty air filters, etc. etc. It is hugely complex and required teams of engineers with man years of labor.....so it is unlikely that you can get to that level without finding that kind of person. Anyone can get to the code. Anyone with the money to buy the units can program it. GIAC and Upsolute have a few other cars in their line-ups....so their focus is not the 996TT. Never was. Kevin desisgns turbos and builds them. His upcomig engines (they are on the road BTW) will likely be at least equal to anyone's out there and will go to I think 8500rpm! With turbos.....

I could go on. On the poll on this forum, UMW sans advertising was the leader in users. GIAC was second with a ton of magazine money being spent. Says it all.

Nothing against EPL.... Nothing at all. I am sure it is is superb. But, at best it will be equal to UMW code. At best. Just my opinion of course.

Does any tuner want to "max out the car." NO. That breaks things. So every tune is a compromise. That means you need to know the engine's innards and where/how they fail. That means that a custom tune is sort of an oxymoron, because you need to limit it in the end anyway if you want to protect the owner from bad gas from a station selling US 87 as US 93, etc. It happens every day. So, a custom tune that does NOT cover that is likely to lead to blown things....and I just don't have the time or money to deal with that.

BTW, if I blow my engine, Kevin will stand behind me if it is the tune. He'll want to check it out, and such.... That is why my money is with UMW in the power department.

I have driven Giac cars and my UMW code was better at 3500 to 6500 to my rear. Mikelly's clutch story backs that up 100x.


(PS: Some of the inexpensive options are alluring and dollar for dollar are quite nice....the market is changing. The above parties are people that make 800-1000hp type engines that are reliable. They are artists. Many don't need that level of work. EPL and Vivid may be enough for most. I have had superb service for my suspension from Dan at Vivid and have a full stage III suspension (his term)....saved a fortune compared to Moton's and I'll never need Motons). But, if you someday want huge power and you want an upgrade path....the way there is via an engine building tune. Keep in mind a new engine is a few dollars....so if you cannot afford a new engine, pushing your car to crazy power without internals may not be the wisest thing to do.... EPL may be great for you. Vivid too. But they are not quite the best. They are darn good. There, trying to be politically correct. )


JB

 

JB thanks for putting it all together for me in such a cogent and meaningful manner. Obviously the voice of experience. I never thought about modifying my TT prior to stumbling on to 6speed. Since then reading so many opinions on so many mod choices often leaves one with more questions than answers. For me I'm calling Kevin when I'm ready to increase power. Once again I appreciate you taking the time to explain it so well.

 

My comment was about off the shelf vs. custom. EPL sells off the shelf too. All I was saying is that, all thing being equal, a custom tuned car will make more power than a car with an off the shelf tune. This applies to EPL's off the self vs. custom tune also. Wasn't this your experience with your corvette?

 

Deal. What are the terms?

 

ehem...

Also, I guess tuning the wining One Lap of America car doesn't mean anything.

 

That is the driver. On a track, big HP is not key. Nor is torque. It is a driver issue and reliability. I'd love to see two cars side by side and see what happens...never will happen.

Take a Porsche factory driver in a stock GT2...probably wipe out the field in one lap. Say Patrick Long or one of the Lizards. Nothing against the one lap guys at all. Also, on that event is is track experience at lots of tracks....in the USA. SO, even a great driver naive to a track is at a disadavantage.

One lap is a crappy example. But, it is one EPL should be proud of. I am not dinging EPL. I suspect one could win one lap on JIC's and not Motons....etc. What you are saying is NOT scientific..it is not hard data.

Having over 600 is actually not much help...have you driven on a track? A great driver in a stock tt will do better than I will.....ask seschang...

Plus, do they run their track tune on stock gas, drive it every day..have a built engine or not, etc. Data???

JB

 

Could have fooled me. Also, I would note that I didn't mention UMW in any post here. In fact, I didn't mention EPL either. I was just making a general comment about custom vs. off the shelf. Proto (one of your appointed pilars) does both custom tuning and off the shelf. Call them and ask which they think is better.

We all get that you're really happy with your UMW experience, but to say that EPL can at best match the UMW code, and in that clutch upgrade thread to suggest that Kevin's code makes 100 more ft lbs than FVD, is just not cool. Every time someone says anything nice about any other tuner, you have to come running and say, nothing can ever be better than UMW because you drive one and it has special racing magic. It's one thing to be excited and support your tuner, but quite another to make baseless assertions and cast aspersions on their competitors.

 

Seal,

Nothing attack mode about my posts. EPL is not known as a builder. Period. Perhaps they are the best builder out there. I don't know. Nothing more than that.

And, at stage II, is a custom really a big deal. I truly don't know. Probably not. Mikelly is happy. I am happy. My car is so much more powerful than I can use on a track like VIR...more would just be silly.

There is room in the universe for us both to be happy and not have the same tuner. These are cars. AS such, we have fun in them.

In terms of track and driving, I used to do a sport professionally that is very machien oriented. Bike Racing. People pushed product left and right. Most of it was bs. You need ti. You need carbon. Clinchers are better. Tubs are better.

In the end, lets both stop pushing product. You are known to be the main EPL pusher here. Most UMW types have moved to another forum....

I suspect we both are happy and in the middle of this is our mutual goal in not letting the person who asked the question get BS'd.

Synergy runs cars. TRG runs cars. Flying Lizard runs cars. Penske runs RS cars. Etc. Cup cars all have ECU's you can tune....

These are street cars on street gas running to the food store and dealing with ice and snow. If you really think about it...the cars are nuts fast stock...we are all way lucky.

So, peace. Kevin does not put me up to anything. Nor does Dan. Nor does Tym, etc.

Giac code is probably ok stuff....safer for clutches per mikelly...so perhaps more cost effective.

Anyway, I am sure EPL can tune me up and make me happy. I found UMW and have had good service and support. In the end, the most important thing is the human factor behind the shop/etc. Can you get answers? Can you get support. If your 30k engine blows up, will they fix it for you? That is a big one.... If EPL does that, they are a winner. Period. Nuff said.

One lap is a race that is very complex....random tracks, not a lot of warm up, etc. The 996TT is clearly a great platform...we probably all agree. Gosh help us if Nissan's get reliable....really a better bang for the buck if we all think about it...(except a used 996TT that is..).

 

Michael, You do the exact same thing with your EPL tune. Jeff, myself and others are very pleased with the UMW tune... Your saying the EPL custom tune is better, without any technical data to back it up is the problem. You have ZERO proof, and in doing so, you're alienating every enthusiast and tuner that sells a "canned" tune.

I had good experiences with my corvette and a custom tune. However, I feel very comfortable with the manor in which Kevin tuned my car... So much so that I'd bet it would make more usable power anywhere over other tunes. You're getting in Jeff's face over Kevin putting him up to what??? What the hell does TONY do? Come on man, just knock it off... Kevin doesn't have to put any of us up to anything. We're not going to let you post a bunch of opinion as "fact". Your tune is no better than anyone elses... You have NO PROOF, so therefore it's just TONYs words you're broadcasting without proof...

Some of us have experience with more than one tune and more than one setup...

Enjoy your tune.

Mike

 

To the original poster. Call around. Find out the facts and what you like, and go for it. In the end, see who will support you and be there if the car grenades...it won't, not at 1.0ish bar.......but I am the type who asks abotu worst case scenerio.....just me.

Go with the place you like. Make a few calls. In the end, I hope you are happy. Nothing more. No matter who you choose, someone will tell you that the tuner in Xville is better/cheaper/faster/smarter. Find happy people without problems and talk to them, etc.

And be safe, these cars are super fast...