Haha. Sorry. Meant running a flashed ECU from a tuner and letting it control the boost vs having an EBC.

 

If everything is factory the ECU will limit boost to about .7 bar. Leave the factory solenoid on the car if you're going to use a flashed ECU it will be a good safety device. I have a Protomotive flash w/1 bar wastegates on K24/18g turbo's and a 5bar FPR. If I feel I need more I'll go to bigger turbo's or... but NO EBC!

 

Sorry. I meant a flashed ECU controlling the boost vs the EBC. Basically, I like your exact setup and am leaning toward it with the Proto flash... so what max boost do you see with that?

 

If you go with Todd K (Proto) and run 24/18's without a EBC he'll put you at 1.1bar on 93.
All the guys running EBC will usually run 1.1 bar on 93 as well.

 

I think some tuners need to communicate better with customers.... and make sure they do the right thing.... yet instead the customers PM me asking for help becasue the tuner is not helping with the situation....
The craziest story I ever heard from a 6speed member was, and mind you its only one sided, that a turbo builder offered to sell him a GT35r based comperssor wheel( or something close to it) stuffed into a K24 turbo all on stock fuel injectors and FPR... so he bought it becasue he wanted a bigger turbo then his 18g... meanwhile the tuner/programmer didnt see any issue with this and just told him to do a datalog.... (eventually never done).
My God, a turbo set up producing north of 800 rwhp was put on a stock car without any alarm bells going off... the Gentleman I believe said to me that the car is running great at 1.4 bars but a little laggy..... I said, please stop driving the car NOW before you blow it up....
Anyways,
these are just some of the stories I have been told... so to all, please do you homework before you damage your motor. I have seen some wacky things over the years....
markski

 

Just after I got my car back from a Proto650 set up k24/18g with ebc I had a buddy holding the ebc to read the boost while I was trying some 3rd/4rth gear pulls wot. For a few of these it felt that the new ats clutch was slipping and co-pilot noticed it as well. Had 93 in car and new I was in low boost(1.1). After I dropped him off I went to turn ebc off and noticed it was on high boost(1.275). Holy Cow! We must have done 5-7 strong pulls all on 93 thinking I was on low boost. I questioned my buddy if he pressed the button by accident to make the switch? He said no. It's in my console and I questioned my builder if possible that the cord rubbed it just right to change setting? He did not think this was likely. I can only assume that what I thought was slipping clutch was the car de-tunning itself.

But from what I see here, some are saying its possible to run 1.3 bar on 93? Lesson learned for me is that I regularly check the ebc prior to any spirited driving. I should really have it on dash somewhere but this was not very avail to me last summer when I got the work done. I guess I may consider myself lucky.

 

There's nothing wrong with running a boost controller...you just need to exert some self control (and hook it up correctly). When I hear that people without boost controllers are running 1.3bar on pump gas, I think that's MUCH more dangerous than me running 1.0-1.05bar on pump gas with a boost controller.

It's great to be able to push a button and raise the boost from 1.0bar (pump) to 1.2bar (MS103). I use both pump gas and race gas, and for me it makes sense to use the EBC. Even if I only used race gas once in a while, it would still be worthwhile, because you can actually take advantage of the better gas.

Another nice feature of an EBC is being able to adjust the boost from the driver's seat. In the fall, when the weather cools down, I can turn a **** and keep from over-boosting. Without an EBC, you would have to get under the car with 2 11mm wrenches and turn nuts on the WG rod...a PITA!!

I was leery of installing an EBC, but now I couldn't imagine being without it.

BTW, if you get the 18g's, you will be amazed what a difference race gas makes...you'll be like me and have 54gal drums of MS103 in your garage!!


Good luck!!

 

Ok...From what i know so far,k24/18g with a 5bar FPR can produce 600hp...When you switch to 60lb injectors,you can reach up to 650-670hp...WHAT BOOST?
I have k24/18g with 60lb injectors and 100octane fuel...I run 1,35bar and my AFR is 11,2-11,4(We kept it at a safe reach point sacrificing some hp)Am i safe that way?

 

I'm gonna guess you've never dynoed your car? I think you are PLENTY safe, actually you might be leaving some power on the table with race gas. I have what you have (18G's and 58lb inj). On 1.2bar, I make 525whp. I estimate that with MS109 and 1.35-1.4 bar, I should be at the 550-575whp range, where I think you are. I'm estimating 15 or so hp per 1psi of boost. 1.4bar minus 1.2bar is .2bar. 14.7x.2=2.94psi. 2.94psi x 15 or so Hp is about 45hp. Add that to my 525whp and I'd be about 570, give or take.

 

Oh yeah, I know I would need the 5bar too along with my injectors. to keep it safe.

 

I have stock FPR...Only injectors...Why it is said that k24/18gs are risk at 1,3-1,4 when properly fueled?I ve dynoed my car when k16/24 at 531hp,1,1-1,2bar...But not now at k24/18g

 

I believe that people feel that 1.3-1.4 is too much boost for PUMP GAS OCTANE levels. I believe that with a good tune (meaning conservative timing), it's possible. Especially with water or Meth inj.

 

This is 100% possible. Even more boost than 1.4 on pump is possible. The major problem in the Porsche market is almost everything is a "cookie cutter" setup meaning, pretty much one "remap" covers all of the similarly setup cars. This is great for everyone involved as it keeps everything "safe", but lends itself to a couple of potential issues. For 80% of the individuals modifying their cars, this is a perfect deal.

First off, if you want to try a slightly different setup from the "norm", you must really befriend your remapper, as it will take quite some time to dial in your particular configuration to the "t". In the interim, your car will be performing sub par, and could potential be dangerous. If the remapper is relying on the knock sensors and O2 sensors to "fine tune" their map, then I suggest you find a new "tuner". This is the worst possible scenario as the stock Porsche ecu is only capable of making adjustments AFTER the fact(it is a reactive adaptive ecu). This means the knock event has already happened and is therefore on the edge = BAD, Unless your car is equipped with some form of ion sensing(predictive adaptive ecu) - no 996 is equipped with this, nor is any stand alone capable of doing predictive assumptions.

Another option is to send your car to the tuner. This is really the correct way to tune the car, and by far the safest for the tuner and the end user as there are no variables. No heavy foot, no mountains, no rain, no Gallardo throttling it next to you, etc.

With a 9.5:1 CR and a reasonably decent flowing exhaust(from the head, through the valves, to the header, through the hotside, through the turbine wheel, into the cat, through the muffler, and hopefully out the tailpipes) it's reason to believe that 600+ whp on pump gas is doable, sans methanol or any additives. However, depending on the backpressure created from the exhaust(as a whole) you might have to upsize everything a bit too much. A common misconception is that you are limitted to a preset boost limit as if that, in some way affects cylinder pressure. Directly, no, indirectly, yes. We can leave that explanation for later. The worst thing that increased boost pressure is capable of(in and of itself), is a reduction in effective valve spring pressure. That and blowing off hoses, exceeding the efficiency of the intercoolers, etc. My discussion revolves around the assumption that everything else is up to the task fo performing at the given boost pressure.

A well performing system would obviously defy the laws physics.... think full boost at 2000rpm, 1000hp on pump fuel, pass emissions, wifey can take the kiddies to school in it, etc. This isn't going to happen any time soon, so we are left to making due with what we have.

A moderate intake restriction would be a MAF, or that hideous intake contraption Porsche developed. Sometimes I truly wonder what they were thinking that day. The great thing about the stock ecu is the fact that it will run without the MAF on a preset map(assumably based on manifold absolute pressure). I will give it to Porsche on that one, they were thinking ahead..... at least you can make it home(in boost, to boot). Although a maf based setup is great for almost everything under the sun(drivability, gas mileage, mediocre to decent performance), the fact remains, it is still a restriction. The larger you go, the less air flowing at lower rpms, and the more difficult it is to meter the air being ingested. So you won't see an 8 inch MAF on our engines. In some ways this can be "cheated" a bit, but alas, a discussion for later. Ideally, switching a MAP based setup would solve 100% of your intake restriction issues at the potential risk of having the car drive a bit more unpredictably(weather and elevation changes, etc). MAP based systems are made by MOTEC, AEM, Magnetti, Pectel, Electromotive, Haltech, Proefi, and about 20 more. These have proven themselves in race cars and street cars around the country, the continent, and the world.

As I am a bit tired, and have a bit of a dizzying intellect, some of you might require more clarification as to what I have posted... I don't claim to know it all, but I might know a thing or two about tuning internal combustion engines. I just hate to see any misinformation passed around and figured I would try to clarify some of the things I saw posted.

Justin

 

Best addition I made to my car. I highly recommend that you put one. After having 4 different set ups, it all makes sense.

 

How did you use it with 4 different setups? Did you have hi and low boost settings on 4 different stages?