If I understand it, Punisher's point is that the theoretical mass throughput of the k24 and the k24/18g are effectively identical, and therefore the power output should be effectively identical. Dyno graphs that show differences may not be illustrating the differences between the stock and 18g wheels but ECU programming differences. So, the question arises whether a flash optimized to an ECU/engine running a k24/18g would provide substantially identical power output from an ECU/engine running a stock k24 and if not, why.

 

lexpro -

I agree with your interpretation.

What would be really helpful would have been my baseline dyno (unknown tuner), then a K24 tune from EPL - with a re-dyno. THEN, do the K24/18g with a tune from EPL just to see.

I'd say Tony @ EPL can give you some insight into this because I bet he's chipped a K24 car and then had the owner go to the K24/18gs.

 

jasonfreed - here is kinda what you are asking for.

Stock K24 vs K24/18G


K24/18G vs K24 with Flash, DV's, Intake, and, Exhaust

 

Vividracing:

So, is the tune on the plain jane K24s the same tuner?

Just asking because I think the question is: Can you get almost equal performance out of plain jane K24s IF you get an agressive tune. Meaning, similar boost profile (not sure if you'd be in the efficiency range though) and similar timing (though, I'm not sure you could run as good timing if you're blowing more hot air).

 

Tuning alters fuel, timing, and boost. You can only tweak the ECU so much to be safe. Could you string out the car for one PRIDE pull on the dyno. Sure. Would you want to drive it daily and road race it in confidence. No way. There is also an efficiency limit. That is the main point of going with the 18G mod is its capability to flow more air flow. Those dynos are all tuned with the Softronic OBDII ECU Flash.

 

Hold on guys, the 18G and K24 do not have identical flow, not even close. Punisher's conversion is incorrect. The K24 flows 20m^3/s at 20C, which becomes lb/min with a conversion factor of 162.04 (0.20 m^3/s * 162.04 = 32.40 lb/min). The 18G flows 40lb/min. But heck, all you have to do is compare the wheels side by side...the 18G is significantly larger; it is very obvious without using a caliper. It is not simply a tuning phenomenon, the 18G compressor is BIGGER.

 

I totally agree re: the tuning and would not want a glory run on the dyno.

I already have K24/18g turbos with EPL tuning and am thrilled.

The question is: Has anyone put a 5bar FPR in, raised the boost a bit more (to the levels of the K24/18gs) with plain jane K24s, tuned it properly and compared?

I think not.

Once you get more fuel in there and leave out the risk of running lean with higher boost, the biggest issue would be running a K24 out of it's efficiency range, consequently running hot air through the motor, losing the ability to get good timing out of the map.

I'd be interested to see what would happen.

 

Holy Crap!!! Thats three 18G threads in about a week...I think someone should post video's of the following races: K16 vs 16G, 16G vs 18G, K24 vs 18G.

And they should be "sticky's"

Moderators, please make the search button bigger

 

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/product...sGasoline.aspx

The K24 flows more then 0.20 m^3 sec ... and which is the flow of the K24/18 ?

 

I can answer your question, i have a 5bar fpr, i have raised the boost to 1.3-1.4 overboost, 1.2-1.3 at max power rpm but not because i'm crazy but because the K24 can safely do this ... and it's not me ... it's Borg Warner that says this !
Et voilà ... 580-600 crank HP and not 525 HP as all the "italian" tuners say !
I don't want to speak of american tuners ... i don't know them !

 

Thats a general flow chart now the true flow values fot eh k24 used in the gt2

A k24 for the gt2 flows 30 lb/min a 24/18 flow 40 lb/min

SO do the math

 

A general flow chart ... no, they are the flow values for all the turbos of the K series !

But, ok, you know better then Borg Warner what its turbos can do ... for me there's nothing more to say !

 

Apparently the flow values for the K24 compressor vary depending on the source. Regardless of these discrepancies, the fact is that the 18G wheel is significantly larger in diameter than the K24. Bigger wheel = more flow. I will post some photos and measurements tonight to close this ridiculous concept that the K24 and 18G wheels are equivalent.

 

I have never seen the G18 compressor so my statements come from numbers ... and when i read that the K24's compressor flows 30 lbs/min and this is not true ... maybe there's a difference in air flow between 24 and 18 but very small !
This is what numbers say and technical specifications say until i can see a map of the air flow of a G18 compressor ...not its dimensions !

 

Hi Punisher,
the table you stated is a general one. There are different k24 compressor wheels available, like different k04 wheels. So this is just a guess but i think just the dimensions of the wheels show how much difference there is in the real world behing 18g and k24.

Roadsterdoc can you share some pics?

Thanks