Suspension Made Simple?
#31
03-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Tnx Mike. We're having a little snow event in Atlanta also. I went out and drove around in it for a bit this afternoon. I used to ski a lot and I miss the fun of snow visitation, not to be confused with living in high-probability areas.
#32
03-01-2009, 03:51 PM
Thanks Mike for this effort.
I have installed JIC 8/12 kg program and GT3 rear sway. lowered and set to GT2 specs.
Should I change the rear toe links; I heard that was the very weak link?
Which ones would you recommend ?
Thanks
Elliot
I have installed JIC 8/12 kg program and GT3 rear sway. lowered and set to GT2 specs.
Should I change the rear toe links; I heard that was the very weak link?
Which ones would you recommend ?
Thanks
Elliot
#33
03-01-2009, 03:57 PM
Yea, We're scheduled for 6-10 inches...
Here's the other bit of "interesting" news... When we adjusted from -1.5 front and -2.0 rear camber to -2.9 front and -2.5 rear on the camber, the tires were lowered and additional 12MM inside the fenders, which is pretty interesting when considering car setup. My tire to fender clearance seems pretty high now with the "street" GT2 like setting!
Here's the other bit of "interesting" news... When we adjusted from -1.5 front and -2.0 rear camber to -2.9 front and -2.5 rear on the camber, the tires were lowered and additional 12MM inside the fenders, which is pretty interesting when considering car setup. My tire to fender clearance seems pretty high now with the "street" GT2 like setting!
#34
03-01-2009, 05:52 PM
Mike my car is currently well set up with JIC Cross and alot of other good stuff.
I am gutting the car for racing. the cage is being custom built and will go from the front to back suspension points through the dash, similar to the Cup cars.
with essentially a tube frame cage welded in how will this change my suspension setup?
the car, frame will be stiffened tremendously, will this affect my current setup?
I am gutting the car for racing. the cage is being custom built and will go from the front to back suspension points through the dash, similar to the Cup cars.
with essentially a tube frame cage welded in how will this change my suspension setup?
the car, frame will be stiffened tremendously, will this affect my current setup?
#35
03-01-2009, 09:57 PM
Tom, time to ditch the JIC with what you've got going on. I'm surprised they haven't driven you crazy already with all of those bumbs at Sebring. You'll never get everything out of the car there with JIC's.
Especially with the added downforce of that wing, when you really start pushing you need something better.
Especially with the added downforce of that wing, when you really start pushing you need something better.
#36
03-02-2009, 04:01 AM
Tom, All the flex is being taken out of your car, man... That's going to change everything about how that car responds. Everything. If you've driven a cup car, you already know how much more precise it "feels". That's largely attributed to the full cage, along with the solid mounts and the rest of the suspension working together.
I'm with Dez... Time to upgrade... Go to Moton, JRZ, or if you want to get crazy, Ohlins!
PS - I'm editing the initial post with some OEM factory ride heights and alignment specs!
Mike
I'm with Dez... Time to upgrade... Go to Moton, JRZ, or if you want to get crazy, Ohlins!
PS - I'm editing the initial post with some OEM factory ride heights and alignment specs!
Mike
#37
03-02-2009, 04:03 AM
Elliot, I am using Tarreds for the rear and TRGs on the front, but there are others out there that work just fine. Contact some of the vendors like Vivid or TRG!
The OEM droplinks are junk, period!
Mike
The OEM droplinks are junk, period!
Mike
#38
03-02-2009, 06:35 AM
Tom,
I agree with Dez and Mike about the changing the damper package you have. The JIC setup will be your weak link in the chain of performance. JIC's will perform much better with the new cage due to the tremendous increase in stiffness laterally and longitudinally and also the benefit of lower torsional flexion.
It still will be a step down from the Motons/JRZ damper setup. You've spent so much already, why not go the extra distance for Motons? I prefer Motons if, for no other reason, the customer service for me has been great and the USA distributor is 35 minutes from my house.
If you can find someone with good knowledge of proper setup, spring weights, etc. I think you will ultimately benefit from the change. I would at least go with the Motorsport 2-ways to start with. You can always make them into 3-ways later on, if you wish.
With all the changes I have made, my first real test day is coming up Friday and am looking forward to sorting things out with my new tires, 3-ways and aero.
I agree with Dez and Mike about the changing the damper package you have. The JIC setup will be your weak link in the chain of performance. JIC's will perform much better with the new cage due to the tremendous increase in stiffness laterally and longitudinally and also the benefit of lower torsional flexion.
It still will be a step down from the Motons/JRZ damper setup. You've spent so much already, why not go the extra distance for Motons? I prefer Motons if, for no other reason, the customer service for me has been great and the USA distributor is 35 minutes from my house.
If you can find someone with good knowledge of proper setup, spring weights, etc. I think you will ultimately benefit from the change. I would at least go with the Motorsport 2-ways to start with. You can always make them into 3-ways later on, if you wish.
With all the changes I have made, my first real test day is coming up Friday and am looking forward to sorting things out with my new tires, 3-ways and aero.
#39
03-02-2009, 09:50 AM
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Mike,your article is awesome...However from my personal experience with bilstein i would like to say that PSS9 is a much better built suspension than PSS10...I ve a custom PSS10 and when i opened it to make it suit me...i saw that the adjustments are not linear...from 1 to 8 are linear but then it goes gradually...imagine also that OEM ROW shocks have a bound/rebound force rated at about 8 of PSS10...On the other hand the adjustment mechanism of the PSS9 is linear,and it is much better designed...
P.S. The coiloovers of the PSS10 are not precised enough...when you use only one nut there is a tolerance in the bolt...PSS9 was flawless there as well...
P.S. The coiloovers of the PSS10 are not precised enough...when you use only one nut there is a tolerance in the bolt...PSS9 was flawless there as well...
#40
03-03-2009, 04:11 AM
It's interesting to hear that the PS10s are not the same design internally. But again, even with an off the shelf PSS9, I'm pretty sure that you're not going to get the same kind of results that I've seen with mine. It really does benefit (as you have done) to talk to the various manufacturers (not the vendors, but the maker of the product) to get the full skinny on the setup you're buying.
Mike
Mike
Last edited by Mikelly; 03-03-2009 at 04:27 AM.
#41
03-03-2009, 04:25 AM
Al, My ride heights currently are:
Right Front - 122mm
Left Front -120mm
Right Rear - 135mm
Left Rear - 136mm
I measured them this morning at 0500 using the stock location points as described in the FSM (Thrust bar mount bolt at front subframe and rear locating hole on the rear subframe). Fortunately the wife's car is out of the garage right now and the Porsche has the garage all to itself! I'll "assume" my indy measured at the same points, since he is a Porsche indy.
When the car was at the track alignment the setup was as follows:
Front:
Right - Caster +8.4 Camber -2.91 height - 117mm
Left - Caster +8.38 Camber -2.93 height - 115.5mm
Toe - 0
Shock setting - 3
Swaybar - softest (furthest out from bar)
Rear:
Right - Camber -2.52 Height - 130mm
Left - Camber -2.50 Height - 131mm
Toe - IN 5mm
Shock setting - full stiff
Swaybar - middle hole
What's interesting is the fact that the fender to ground height (center of the fenderwell) was reduced by 10MM rear and 12mm front when using the aggressive alignment specs. Part of that difference might well be the MPSC tires the car was setup with for the track, maybe not...
Mike
Right Front - 122mm
Left Front -120mm
Right Rear - 135mm
Left Rear - 136mm
I measured them this morning at 0500 using the stock location points as described in the FSM (Thrust bar mount bolt at front subframe and rear locating hole on the rear subframe). Fortunately the wife's car is out of the garage right now and the Porsche has the garage all to itself! I'll "assume" my indy measured at the same points, since he is a Porsche indy.
When the car was at the track alignment the setup was as follows:
Front:
Right - Caster +8.4 Camber -2.91 height - 117mm
Left - Caster +8.38 Camber -2.93 height - 115.5mm
Toe - 0
Shock setting - 3
Swaybar - softest (furthest out from bar)
Rear:
Right - Camber -2.52 Height - 130mm
Left - Camber -2.50 Height - 131mm
Toe - IN 5mm
Shock setting - full stiff
Swaybar - middle hole
What's interesting is the fact that the fender to ground height (center of the fenderwell) was reduced by 10MM rear and 12mm front when using the aggressive alignment specs. Part of that difference might well be the MPSC tires the car was setup with for the track, maybe not...
Mike
Last edited by Mikelly; 03-03-2009 at 04:30 AM.
#42
03-03-2009, 08:06 AM
Part of that difference might well be the MPSC tires the car was setup with for the track, maybe not...
Mike[/quote]
Tnx, Mike.
I was expecting RH's to be lower from looking at pics. If MPSC's are considerably less in diameter then they certainly could account for the decreased ground to fender well measurement.
I keep hoping for someone to jump in with some comment about my roll center issues but no one has done so. Oh well. I'll see what happens at RA Friday.
Mike[/quote]
Tnx, Mike.
I was expecting RH's to be lower from looking at pics. If MPSC's are considerably less in diameter then they certainly could account for the decreased ground to fender well measurement.
I keep hoping for someone to jump in with some comment about my roll center issues but no one has done so. Oh well. I'll see what happens at RA Friday.
