With the race gas file, my tuner, not liked by many here, will tell you that I was at over 650BHP. Since we didn't dyno it, and since I don't have any other measurable evidence of the power other than endless video and some traqmate data from road courses, all we can assume is that the car was making at LEAST as much as it made with the previous owner on Curry's Dyno, which was 510WHP, 532#ft. or torque with crappy Upsolute software and the stock wastegate springs and stock 3.5bar FPR... That said, Kevin's UMW tune KILLED the same clutch that the Upsolute configuration handled just fine... I can tell you that the race gas file was like nothing I've ever experienced... Car was blindingly fast everywhere and would break traction thru 4th gear and was sketchy in 5th... I also datalogged 0-60 times at 2.9 seconds and 0-100-0 at 10.82X using a traqmate with that 100 octane race file.

Unfortunately for the car, I've detuned it (this past week actually) as I'm tired of being deaf with the aftermarket exhaust. Not sure if the car will see that performance again anytime soon.

Like I said to you elsewhere, these motors start at $25K. The transmissions are $10K to replace if you can find them. Doing searches here will show you that clutches at this level will become tricky. And the hydraulic systems that actuate the clutch will become problematic. And no disrespect meant to anyone else here, but I have yet to see a full standalone system on a 996TT that would be considered a "daily driver" in the sense that you and I call it... Washington DC rush hour(S) traffic isn't a place you want to deal with a tempermental machine... I know you said a motor is a motor, no matter the platform... But you see standalones in many other platforms, yet I know of NONE personally here in the 996TT community.

Good luck with your research and keep us posted on what path you decide to take.

Mike

 

ttboost, thanks for the info - cost to replace would indeed be a deterrent to going too far out on the limb. Supra guys apparently went through this too back when they cost a mint and it sure isn't a fear now! Sounds like the 996 drivetrain isn't made of glass though and that 600WHP is doable. On my Supra that was pushing the edge of what I felt pump octane could do, with the added displacement of these cars that ought to be reasonable although drivetrain loss sounds a good bit different. At some point you've got "enough" but it's hard not to keep going I know

Mike, sounds like quite a bit of fun! I don't want traction issues though, what sort of tires you running? Am wondering if say a Nitto 555R at all corners would stick nice during the warmer months :-) I hear you on the exhaust, that gets old FAST and I wasn't happy with the racket my last car made - too much attention. I wouldn't want an open wastegate either, I scared more than one pedestrian half to death and could be heard a LONG way away - no thanks. What will you do to turn it down and retain performance? I saw a nice custom setup pictured on a newly done yellow car here with an x-pipe merge and decent sized cans that looked like art!

What is killing the clutch hydraulics - disengagement pressures? Supra had this issue and so did DSM which caused crankwalk! IMO multi-disk is the way to go and retain a light pedal that ought to be friendly to your leg. However you will lose the damping of the dual mass flywheel and it's going to feel grabbier - expect some trans rattle perhaps and with the pedal out in neutral at idle some rattle from the plates. That much friction surface plus the lower mass of the flywheel takes getting used to from a stop and it's not cheap. They have to break in and slipping them takes some skill at first. Broken in mine was trouble free on my last car though and I'd do it again despite the cost.

As for standalones - yeah they can be no fun to tune for driving in traffic. I tuned mine in bumper to bumper for just that though, it just takes time and patience which frankly many owners cannot afford which is why *I* learned. I used to keep and DD cars for a week to tune them and I never charged. Stop and go is a PITA especially when loads change from fans or an A/C compressor fires up but transient roll on from cruise and other edge situations are tough sometimes too. Frankly some aftermarket boxes handle changes like that poorly. Don't forget COLD start in dead of Winter or hot start in Summer heat, I'll bet folks still use my tables for that on the Supra. I found at least one "tuner" using maps that were 90% my settings. Something like an Autronic might be a good one for the Porsche but much depends on how integrated the OEM box is to other ancillary systems, perhaps piggybacking it would work and might allow for OBD-II scans to pass. Given a CHOICE I think I'd prefer to tweak the OEM ECU especially if ways could be found to better datalog and perhaps gain some I/O like the DSM guys managed on theirs ages ago. As much fun as I had tweaking it might be nice to have a zero worry car with monster power and no laptop along for the ride. Many tuners seem to be around for flashing these cars, is it simply impossible for mortals to gain access to the needed materials?

Appreciate the dialog guys! Mike, when taxes come in I may add that cash to what I've been saving and spring for a 996. I see nothing about the car or community to turn me off, it's just a matter of swallowing that big pricetag and finding the right car - here from a member I hope.

P.S. Mike, the Tiburon is going to have it's ECU cracked quickly as the engineers hinted that they didn't try to protect it very well If the Mustang gets an ecoboost twin turbo V6 things will get interesting quickly...

 

Great questions & answers here; i've learned alot..... and plan to keep an eye on this thread to continue gaining knowledge. Thanks people!~

 

Hey BLKMGK,

I believe I saw another update that you purchased basupra's 996TT...congratulations to you if that is truly the case.

I just got back today from a 2500 mile road trip with my own 996TT and it's a VERY different car than the Supra. There are definitely pros and cons from a road trip standpoint but I'm very satisfied with the car and really happy with my decision to choose it over a C6 Z06 (or another Supra, etc.). I know you'll have a ton of fun with these cars old friend.

It's funny to see more and more Supra owners coming over too. LOL!

 

+1.
Some of the usual posters & current owners might know the references behind these limits on some parts, but doing some searches on the individual topics such as K24/18G, the factual information is well buried between anecdotal posts.

This makes getting some proper information to figure out whether to buy a 996TT for one's intended purpose quite difficult.

 

I wonder what the cost of a supra block engine is compared to a 996TT engine...that for me, the cost of the "boom," is the issue.

Mikelly's comments are what I have as my general understanding of the market for these cars too, fwiw. I personally would "build" my motor once it goes over 600 to 650...since I have a lot of other issues to spend money on these days, that is far off in the future. I want Kevin's GT2 turbine (UMW) and ZC and just enough fuel to make them work, and then I want to leave it alone.

Jeff

 

Let me just correct you here... there is just one that I know of. Motec!

Goals peak only with your budget.

 

Currently the car I've purchased makes 620RWHP, for now I think that will be fast enough and is apparently considered safe to run that on pump gas. I ran into some issues with it on the way home but they should be repaired now and I'm looking forward to picking it up later this week! Been awhile since I've driven a fast car but this sucker ****s and gits. I do not see needing to add additional power any time soon - and I am driving it on low boost. Stoopid Fast!

Supra shortblocks - block and rotating assembly - are CHEAP from Toyota or at least were. A couple of grand tops. I even had a spare one sitting in my garage (used). I had no fears of seeing 800RWHP on the stock shortblock. Likewise the manual transmission in that car was bulletproof in my experience. I also found that working on the Toyota was cake compared to the 996TT so far (lol). I actually have in my possession a brand new Toyota head, professionally ported by HeadGames, with a completely new Ferrea valvetrain and new HKS 264 cams. I wouild have been over 800RWHP with this for sure. I have the 96lb injectors to go with it too - brand new. My car was totaled before this could be installed. I have Q45 TB and an intake modded to mount it with a big tank - polished - just sitting too. <sigh> I did not buy another Supra due to emissions concerns and just the general pain of having a truly nice car taken away from me by an idiot driver. My compensation for my loss wasn't enough. Total a Porsche and the guy on the phone won't try to tell you it's worth less than $16K and that your modifications didn't "add value". I will never shop Sears again and urge others to follow my example. They're scum and they are "self insured" so good luck collecting - took me 3 years.

Anyway, the Toyota stuff was solid but really how much power do you need? The 996TT is AWD and lighter. The car looks pure sex and has an updated interior. If I did it again with Toyota I'd do an SC300 and swap my old drivetrain over if I don't sell the wreck first.

As for engine management, MOTEC isn't the only game in town on these cars as I know of someone running a piggybacked standalone. I would put forth that an AEM could be wired in too but satisfying the OEM ECU so it doesn't throw nanny codes would be a challenge that I'm not looking for right now. There's nothing "special" about a MOTEC IMO that precludes some other ECU from doing the same things. <shrug> The advantage of a piggyback is that the OEM ECU continues to report on emissions for the inspection station which in VA is important....

Sorry to veer a bit off from the original posts intent. I agree that folks just getting into these cars can have a hard time learning about some of the basics as the info is scattered. The stickies and DIY threads do help though if you dig around. More as I learn more...

 

Fair enough. I was thinking along the lines af the AEM plug and play. Motec doesn't make it specifically FOR the 996TT, but it can be made to work, which was my point and also the people than can do it are in the minority, thats all.

 

Dollar for dollar, I'm sure the Supra motor is a great drag race motor... However, the Porsche 996TT motor is derived from the original GT1 race motor and is engineered from the factory with one of the best dry sump engines ever made. It's simply a workhorse that will not fail if kept within its build parameters. Exceed those and you're gonna be $25,000 out of pocket. This car is not a toyota and parts simply are not that cheap. It's also really designed more as a roadracer than a drag racer. I know many guys will argue against this, but it is what it was designed to be.

Mike

 

$18xx from my local source for a brand new one from Toyota.

 

Mike, are you unaware of the Supra racing history? Toyota didn't make it for drag racing either! Out of the box, for it's time, it stopped incredibly well and pulled close to a G on the skidpad. I once had a dork in an EVO who had been bragging about his drag times before I dropped my times on him tell me that at least his could go around corners. I had to laugh at his ignorance!

FWIW I've never thought of the 996 as a drag car either and while I might take mine to the strip I mostly just wanted something fun on the street. I do find it very odd that the supposed horespower limits are as low as they are for such an engineered engine. Hopefully over time the edge will be found further away - as it was with the Supra. These cars are becoming affordable, you'll see new blood driving them, and hopefully more shops wrenching on them. Already we're seeing more folks trying things like methanol, E85, and tweaking standalone computers. I have my fingers crossed that a package to tune the OEM ECU will make it out into the wild - operators are standing by!

I will readily admit that even in the short time I've spent driving a 996 that it's a more sophisticated platform than the Supra. It's also a 9 year newer design! As old as it is the Supra continues to thrill, I won't ever hate on them.

 

Heh, I often think that the 996TT would make a much better drag car due to engine placement and weight transfer alone. The car is so much more sure footed under power than a similarly powered Supra. That being said, the Supra is so successful in all of the straightline speed stuff due to it's unbelievable drivetrain...which most of us already knew.

 

That's funny because when I do a "google" search on Toyota Supra Racing Heritage, I don't pull up much on "roadracing"... Do the same with Porsche and see what you get!

Bottom line is Porsche designed the powerplant in this car for one purpose. It is purpose-built specifically for the rigors of roadracing and endurance road racing.

Again, google is your friend... Do the search and see whatcha find...

Mike

 

Toyota made the MKIV supra for all of about 7 years and the racing series it was in was mostly JDM so yeah I guess if you aren't looking for Kanji you won't find it. The Supra road raced and was designed for that and GT sorts of driving. The engoing and MT also didn't begin to blow up until you hitr about 900RWHP - from just 3liters. <shrug> The car pulled good brake and skidpad numbers, frankly IO could give a crap what it scored on some race track I'll never run but they DID race successfully - I think the Skyline was beating them though. They stopped making them, c=the chassis is older and not so valued by injsurance companies, I bought something else this time. Doesn't mean it was crap - it certainly handled a ton of power without issue....