You are correct about track time. I don't see myself exceeding 2 DE's a year. I just hear about so many tranny's going out or having issues. Wonder how many would still be around if they had just done the cooler.

 

Most of the time the tranny issues are due to modded cars with lots of torque on the low end which is really brutal on the transmission. Many of us wait FAR too long to change to a better trans fluid, something that can take the heat and abuse of long aggressive driving without braking down. Secondly, the cooler is very important as metal brakes down faster when it's overheated. That's ignoring how many bad shifts we do per weekend. All of these effects are greatly increased by putting R-comp tires on the car.

Even with all of that, if you have more upwards of 500 hp and cooler and better fluids, it's likely that you'll have to address the synchros and 3rd gear at some point. That's with lots of DE driving because we'll all miss a shift here and there.

I completely agree with upgrades to the tranny, but just don't want to make this a bigger issue than it is. I could track my car for 2 more years at 8-10 DE's a year and likely not have any problems, smooth shifting is very important, if the car jerks when you are shifting hard, you are being too rough on it and need better clutch feel. This is the quickest way to destroy gears.

Maybe we should do a poll and see just how many have actually had failures, or significant problems with the tranny.

 

Mine qualifies as I can no longer get it into 1st or reverse.

Mine had a "notchy" issue from day one with that crap B&M shifter that came in the car from the previous owner. However, what hurt mine was the combo of the kevlar clutch material (it gets to sticky when hot and won't release from the face of the flywheel) and the issues with the clutch hydraulics.

I agree with what Tom Kerr and Dez both are saying, BUT I personally think the heat is significant enough for intermediate to advance level students that it is safe insurance to plan for two upgrades when the trans is out of the car...

BETTER feel from the clutch pedal starts at the hydraulics.

Insurance for the fluid is a tranny cooler/fluid to fluid heat exchanger. If the car is already appart, and if you are an advanced driver throwing it out there 15-20 days per year, I think its foolhardy not to have cheap insurance of a cooler...

That's my $.02 and TOM KERR, I'm following your advice man!

Mike

 

Mine qualifies too. It blew last year. Fortunately, it was replaced with a new factory unit under warranty. Not much track, but I drive it hard on the backroads around here. So what's the deal w/ better fluid? What's better than factory?

 

I wish AL NORTON Would report back on his tranny cooler idea and how well its working, because that's a cheap solution for guys who don't want to take out their tranny to tap the case. Al's idea is the same way we work the TKO600 tranny...

Mike

 

I pm'd Al. I suspect he is off the net.


It would be super to hear about his cooler solution....price is key.


Jeff

 

I don't know the price of Al's solution, but I do know that he's had limited testing of the system mostly due to some tire issues at his last more than few events. He said it worked wonderfully this past weekend with Chin though. And it was pretty hot outside. That's all I know for sure.

 

I am likely going to copy him....if it is cheap, seems like a no brainer.

Thanks guys!

Jeff

 

Viperbob got them for me at a pretty good deal, pm him or call me.

 

Heavy has pretty much hit things spot on on the above posts. IMO my tranny will need opened at the end of every race season. From the guys I race and talk with that is the standard. The racing, shifting and Hoosier race slicks with 600+ hp on the track takes a toll, syncros and R+P gears are going to go. I think I rev match as good as anyone and that is probably still crappy enough to cause alot of damage.
Nevermind the tracks that are not perfectly flat my car gets alot of air time and when the wheels with 335 slicks hit back on the track the tranny takes alot of abuse.

Let's get this straight, I advocate none of what I do, I did it for my car which is ABUSED on the track at full tilt racing against Ferrari's, Vettes, and Cup cars, I push as hard as the car takes and I go till something breaks, so unless u sound like me dont listen to a darn thing I say.

I do share my experience so people can see what I have done and what the car can do and what it can take, mostly for fun. enjoy!!

 

Here's a long tranny cooler report for all to see. Sorry it's taken so long but I've had one problem after another with the car and have yet to complete a day at the track for nearly a year. 2 of the problems were wx related but the rest were mechanical like fuel pump failure, ABS/PSM controller failure, boost hoses blowing off and destroying MAF sensors, 3 cut down tires, etc.

I was able to get 2 sessions in last weekend at Road Atlanta before I cut down yet another tire (lowered spring rates, lowered ride height and got into the fender). First session was early AM with low ambient and transaxle temp only went to 190+ so I didn't engage the pump. Second session was considerably higher ambient and after close to 20 minutes temp was 221 or 222. It wasn't high enough to trigger the alarm buzzer/light system I have which is set at 240. I knew I was only going to do one more hot lap so I switched on the pump and in one lap the temp came down to 216. After that I did a cool-down lap and came in. I rarely run more than 20 minutes in any session even if the time is available.

I consider the project a success and am pleased that it didn't require trans R&R or any welding and the only cutting involved was the 40mm return pipe from the radiators and several cuts to make up various lengths of -8 hose. I haven't done a cost analysis but I know it was under 1K for all the parts. That doesn't include the alarm system I set up by using a voltage channel on the Zeitronix unit I use to collect other data that is written onboard to disk.

Tom K used a switch to automatically turn on his system at some pre-determined temperature. I chose not to do it that way since I had other means available already.

It was not a short DIY project but not a difficult one. I spent a whole lot of time just figuring how I was going to do it. There were some existing lines that had to be slightly re-routed in the driveshaft tunnel and all this required some contemplation. I had to move my supplemental Bosch fuel pump to make room for either the oil pump or the filter, I can't remember which. I did this several months ago and haven't looked at it since.

If there is interest, I will look up some of the receipts and PN's and post a tally. There were some extraneous expenses, like an oil to air cooler I purchased and then decided not to use bc I thought of a better option. I'll need to back all that expense out of the equation. If anyone wants to set up a R&D fund to reimburse me, I'll be happy to accept it. :-)

I have several pictures I can post but can't remember how to do so and would need someone to guide me through that process. Some of you have posted pics for me in the past but I think it would be best if I post the pics and give some commentary with some of them. Otherwise I suspect some of it might not make sense. The installation is not a thing of beauty and some things were temporized since I didn't even know it was going to work. No need milling a bunch of fancy one-off bracketry for a failure.

I won't be able to respond quickly with all I'm willing to do as there is family illness presently taking priority over my "car know".

 

This is good stuff for the community, I really dig it when someone take the time and effort to make cool things like this. As much as I have the imagination and the basic mechanical ability, I just dont have the facilities or the fail "pucker factor" to do so..at least not yet, although a couple of us might have a few other smaller projects on the backburners:-)

I'll see if I can dig up my receipt and find the associated costs of the RSR version for comparison, maybe it will be motivation to get a niche market created. Some of the things we did were out of necessity, like tapping the coolant line from the block as the 997GT3 coolant pipe didnt quite fit, this would probably be more cost effective.

My heat exchanger is made by BEHR, same people that make IC's for F40's, Im sure they arent near as cost effective as the next brand. Another cost saver might be the 3 way tranny cooler hose from the tippy cars as opposed to the GT3 part, I compared them (I have every rubber hose made for the 996) and dont see much of a difference if any, but wouldnt surprise me if there would be a cost difference. We also removed the temp valve and are running the water through the cooler 100% of the time, one less part to go wrong.

Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

(PS. my prayers with your family and a speedy recovery)

 

I also run water through 100% of the time----just not the oil. It's too thick at low temps. Puts a strain on the oil pump. Don't know much about BEHR coolers. Does Home Depot stock their paint?

Thanks for the prayers. I believe they do make a difference.

 

Al, you can email me the pictures, I'll post them for you.

 

Al Actually sent me the pics a while back, but I'll have to dig them up tomorrow or the next couple days. Gang, the parts Al used are the parts I've been saying I'll use. The MOCAL fluid to fluid exchanger/pump and the tstat switch all can be had thru racerpartswholesale.com

This is a no brainer gang!

And Tom, Yea, I think you're crazy, but you're pushing the envilope for the rest of us man!

Mike