Reality and paper graphs can be a lot different. Take a look at this video starting at min 3:30. Seems to me like Evoms, proto and others have made big power in Arizona and Texas with their IC's and surface temps there get crazy. I will stick with custom IC's with metal end tanks.

 

There was allot of good research and data here, most the data was for under 20second runs from 1st to 4th gear. For drag racers this would be pertinent and informative.

I would be interested in another scenario, the 20 sec runs showed the IC's temp increasing but what happens if we continue in 4 or 5th gear for a period of time? IC's are designed to cool intake air, with continued air going across the IC, will the temp decrease and at what efficiency?

Some of the driving I do involves longer distances, pwdrhounds track driving will involve straights as well non WOT areas, I think there is a bigger picture here than 20seconds of 1-4 gear pulls under WOT of heating an IC up is only part of the story.

I'd also be interested in how intake temps affect timing, directly affecting power.

Good for conversation either way.

 

I've got the GT2RS ICs on my car and my experience is based on 20 - 25 minute hard sessions at HPR in 90+ degree heat at 5200' altitude with a lot of WOT and low speed situations. I really can't imagine any situation where one could be stressing the ICs any more on the street. Even a sustained high speed run on the autobahn would probably allow the ICs to shed heat more due to the huge increase of cooling airflow. I am trapping (according to my GPS timer) the same speed at the end of the long straight and lap times (traffic permitting) are basically the same also at the 5 min mark (allowing for tire warm up) as they are at the 15 minute mark of the session. Anything much over 15-20 minutes will be slower due to the tires getting greasy. This is the data I have for a 550hp car so I have no idea how that would translate to 850+hp applications where you are flowing much more air. The GT2RS coolers were designed for a 620 hp car and were optimized for that application. The cores are pretty dense (airline quality) but the tradeoff is probably a flow restriction above some higher hp ratings. For the money these things are a no brainer.... As a comparison I am trapping about 3-4 mph faster at the end of the long straight and shed about 2 seconds of my best times that I have run with the regular Turbo coolers. I am not sure is that can be attributed to more experience at that track or the ICs but the straight away speed would indicate the ICs. Food for thought..... I do believe a true test of any ICs would be in a hot condition track environment where you are basically taxing your car and engine 100% with a combination of high and low speed situation for 20+ minutes in a controlled and repeatable environment with a lap timer. I just don't see how you could replicate this on the street or on a dyno....

 

Excellent post! I think for the money, you are right and your direct experience would be one of the driving extremes that demonstrate the differences over time. This is not to take away from Earls 20sec 1-4 pulls, but to add to it.

I dont track as much as I would like, however, I do quite a few 40-50mile back road drives that include very quick and hard accelerations as well as moderate to high speeds which would move quite a bit of air through the IC's, as you mentioned, giving an example of cooling efficiencies.

My argument isn't so much how fast an IC heats up (of course the less the better) but how quickly it can cool the intake charge (especially for us at 5000'+ altitudes). A 1/4 mile run will not show this, driving over time in yours and my example will, the whole point of IC's it to lower the Intake temps, higher intake temps raise timing that robs us of power and efficiency.

 

Did you see George's data on his built motor 997TT earlier in this thread? The Evo coolers never stopped climbing in temp to 300kph, the RS coolers peaked at a lower temp and then started dropping above ~150mph, and the car was several seconds quicker to speed. This car was well over 700hp under the same conditions for the runs. Just because a cooler "survived" and made x power in the desert doesn't mean they were optimal and power wasn't left on the table.

Nine Excellence recently started recommended these coolers over 3.5" Bell cores (VERY similar to Evo hint hint) for people running up to 650hp, citing at least a 10C difference and quicker times based on repeated testing doing laps over 200mph at Bruntingthorpe.

My knock is the end tank attachment method which has shown to be an issue over 1.6 bar.

I'm about to finish up testing on a new all aluminum 16 row cooler (lot's of channel surface area to transfer heat) that are more dense than Bell and run a bit cheaper. They were developed for the GTR which has a similar size contraint IC-wise. If they don't beat the RS coolers I will weld metal tanks on the RS bits and be done with it.

Its been over 2 years since the RS coolers have been out -other than Marston, has anyone seen data from a company or customer showing better temp control without chemical intercooling (meth)? (not being a smart*ss, I'd really like to know)

 

Well, you would be surprised at how much heat you can develop at a drag strip doing many runs. When I had my original setup with less power, I would start off the day at 121 mph trap speed and end it at 117 ish, that's 20+ runs with 95 ambient temps at 6000ft. Stock IC's.

I find it very interesting that Tanner in the vid I posted above ran the GT2RS and found it sorely underpowered, and porsche's response was that it was the heat. He didn't even hammer on it that long. Kinda goes against what earl's charts show.

 

Those tests were done in two totally different conditions... everything from temps to dry vs wet was at play... I honestly think that if anyone will make any judgement about any IC on the market do it on the same day within 2 hours apart... and there is still a driver induced variable....plus if Im not mistaken it wasn't even the same car... just a similar set up...
Someone send me a set of Gt2rs... Ill do same day same car same boost same temp within an hour swap... and log whatever you want...
markski

 

excellent point about conditions. Also, the fact that these IC's show great improvement in a K16 car or a tuned k24 car doesn't mean that they will work on higher power cars the same way. The GT2RS flows much more than the aforementioned cars and it apparently had heat soak problems as shown by the video I posted above. I am betting that the GT2RS could probably use better IC's as well at it's power level. Definitely good discussion

 

Digging that video prche951, for an unmodified car, the GT2RS rocks!

You also have a good point that metal is a much better conductor of heat than plastic, I'd imagine that if someone made some good cost effective metal intakes for the 997.2/RS IC's, there would be a market for them as there really isn't much else proven outside the $2500+ 5" cores that would be overkill for the stock to mild modified cars. pwderhound has really good experience with his on the track at high altitudes which is a very good stress test, although not sure what his surface or ambient air temps were.

When I had other car makes, there was allot of use of ceramics on the higher temp pieces, supposedly this helps dissapate heat, not sure this would help the IC's as the working surfaces are inside the core, not sure there is any chemical treating that would help with cooling effeciency.

markski has the same 5" core IC's that I have and are interestingly without the sealed venturi tubing to and fron the ICs, his AIT temps are ridiclously low, I dont have enough experience with mine yet, but guessing our cars would choke on anything smaller.

Have to thank earl for the tip on using a fluke with the leads on the intercooler hoses, I have always been curious about the difference between the engine sides in regards to boost, temps etc... a few of us have durametric data loggers and would be a good comparison of the various configurations such as stock, vs evoms/evo vs 997.2/RS in regards to AIT, timing, load ...etc. Anyone else interested?

 

My power goals are about 600-650 crank horsepower, these intercoolers look like they will fit the bill nicely for that, plastic endtanks or not.

 

Not sure if it would. Again, the video above shows the GT2RS choking in the heat and that is a 620 bhp car.

 

LOL I don't plan on driving much when it's 161 degrees! When ambient temps are that hot, intercoolers can only do so much. Eventually, they'll get heak soaked, no matter how big they are or what they're made of.

 

161F was surface temperature, living in TX, the chances of that are pretty good pending time of the year. However, I have seen 144F Air temps in Kuwait and Saudi.

 

Deepblue, last time I was at HPR about 3 weeks ago the mid day temps were 97F and track temps measured at 138F which seems high but that is what the track organizers were reporting.

Going back to an earlier post by Porsche951, I'm certain 20 runs at the dragstrip will soak the ICs to a certain degree but if you do the math you are doing 20 x 12sec runs which totals 4 minutes of full throttle runs mixed in with several hours of cool down. How could that possibly compare to going full bore at the track for 20+ minutes where is extremely easy to heat soak not only the ICs but also overheat the brakes, gearbox, and tires among others. I'm certainly not arguing and probably missing something as I've never been to a drag strip but I assume you do a 12 second run, drive the car to the pits and wait for another run 15 or 20 minutes down the line. I would venture a guess that is why car manufacturers from all over the world do a lot of their testing at the Nurburgring as it is a perfect place to fully tax the car and all its components for extended periods of braking, accelerating, straight line speed, and cornering, which will all stress the cars components to the max... Oh yeah, cool video of the GT2 RS...

 

silly, 161 off the tarmac is usually 100 ish