I constantly read about not buying a car with to many mods as it may be abused. What constitutes abuse?

Sure running high boost and then just shutting it off, or lots of type 2 over revs, or not completing required maintenance like regular oil/filter.

But in reality, what is your definition of ABUSE?

These motors were designed for high rpms and have twin turbos to make lots of usable and enjoyable power. In fact, many owners regularly track both stock and highly modified cars WITHOUT many problems.

Sure the improperly glued coolant lines may blow out or some other thing may break, but it happens on street driven cars as well.

I, personally, feel that someone who spends thousands or tens of them to mod a car (like a Porsche) will most likely maintain the vehicle properly.

Now back to tracking: I use to run HPDE and Solo II Auto-x in Integra's and Eclipses and would change the oil after a hard day at the track. Coolant was changed annually along with the other libricants. Many of my friends would comment about my impeccable maintenance schedules while others said I was trashing and abusing the cars.

So which is it?

Does good maintenance superceed hours at high rpms or is it still abusive to use the full rpm range on a track?

Sure suspension parts need more frequent replacement, but whats the difference between redline stoplight to stoplight all day every day and a day at the track?

One last item: Type 2 over revs. I know of 2 owners who have chips/flashes that came with 7200 rev limiters. I have seen their ecu logs and see thousands of type 2, yet the flashes are from reputable tuners. So again, the question is: Is a type 2 over rev abuse even if its not from an improper down shift?

Looking forward to your opinions.

Scott

 

I agree with much of what you've said. To me, abused doesn't mean heavily modified, or driven hard on the street or the track. In fact, the street can be much harder on the car than the track (usually don't have potholes, speed bumps, curbs, and salt on the track). As another example, my cousin had to get a complete engine rebuild on his 993 because he NEVER drove it hard -- apparently those engines needed to be exercised from time to time.

For me, I would say that abuse is more when you don't take care of maintenance items, or fix things when they need replacing. For example, letting shocks go completely, not replacing plugs or belts, not changing oils and fluids at the right intervals, etc.

 

While I would say that tracking does loosen the car some, it doesn't mean the car was abused. I am more aware of changing all the fluids in my car and give immediate attention where it is needed as a safety precaution. I hardly drive mine on the street so pothole driving or salt, rain, snow have hardly touched my car. It's suspension has been completely upgraded and that alone transmits more noise into the passenger compartment which some people might interpret that the car has been abused. I never do burnouts or any driving that constitutes abuse, however, I do try to drive and reach for the car's potential, because to me driving the 996TT as a grocery getter is a joke. I only know of one car on here that has been abused and that car's owner has freely divulged it on the open forum.

 

In my opinion, not keeping up with proper maintenance and what not is abuse....not tracking it. All Pcars, hell even the Panamera and Cayenne, are extraordinarily sporty cars! They can keep up with the stuff at the track.

 

you can over rev any engine on a downshift while racing. The damage you can't see is when someone left an EBC on 1.8 bars and stuck 91 octane in it and saw fit to shut down an Sti on the freeway. Then little strange noises appear and they quickly sell the car. Basically if the car ever had an EBC I am leery, same goes for c16, but that's just me

 

Good point.

 

I disagree that the track isn't hard on the car. You are really working the engine, brakes and transmission and if you ever look up your temps at the track they are higher than you will ever get on the street unless you are trying to outrun the cops. But it's not abusive if you are cognisant and don't over rev the car. If there is one brand than can easily take the track it's Porsche. These cars are so over engineered.

That said, I won't hesitate to buy a car from a conscientious enthusiast who has tracked (enjoyed) their car a few times. Proper maintenance is KEY. Personally, I would not touch a car that has been exclusively or tracked a LOT. One thing that barely affects cars are auto crosses. Do that all day long as far as I'm concerned.

I have tracked my car a total of 3 times. I usually leave the track at noon because I've had my fill. Before going I check all the fluids, brakes, etc... and make sure the car is warmed up before going full bore. I also take a cool down lap and finish with a 2 minute idle. I run 100 octane on a 91 octane program for even more margin of safety. I also have stack of records literally 2-3" thick documenting all maintenance, earlier than needed fluid changes, etc.. including upgrades and downgrades (hated the LWFW). Finally, I know I'm not pushing my car as hard others because I get passed quite a bit but that's just my skill level.

I know people who own Porsches because they look cool and avoid spending even basic maintenance costs. They drive around with check engine lights for years and only get the thing fixed when they want to sell.

One more thing is cars with lots of owners and no records. They might be perfectly fine, but who knows where they've been?

Which car would you rather have? BTW my car isn't for sale

 

Some interesting points !!! Perhaps next time I see a post "Car is highly modded or has been tracked", Ill post a link to this.

Lets keep the thought and comments comming.

Ari, from the pic in your avatar, I already own it. looks better now that I tinted the windows. lol

 

I can honestly say I never really enjoyed the car until I started going to the track, really makes you appreciate the engineering of these cars, I service after every track event, I have an EBC and I am very conscious of the settings, esp on the track. I would only buy if the car was properly maintained, otherwise its neglect (abuse).

 

I agree with Ari. I'd buy a modified car well before I'd buy a tracked car. Tracking a car is hard on all the components, thats why professional race cars have regular overhaul/replacement cycles for engines/gearboxes/diffs etc, stuff that weekend racers are highly unlikely to do.

 

Race car engines and transmissions are built to a completely different spec than street engines and are stressed way more than street car engines. I don't see much difference between an American tracked car and a German autobahn car. German Porsches are living their life at 150mph+.

 

100% Agree

 

Do you have anything to offer in terms of proof that German Porsches average 150mph+? IMHO this is rubbish, having lived in Germany let me tell you there are only some roads that allow this speed and unfortunately most Germans live and commute in cities.
Your earlier statement that race car engines are more highly stressed than street car engines is correct, that is why I would prefer to buy a road car that has been roaded and not one that has been raced/tracked on the weekends.

 

I have never lived in Germany other than a 2 month visit, which was not in the unlimited autobahn area. I guess my statement was more of a fantasy about Germany rather than truth, my mistake, but for those that do live in the unlimited areas, I would imagine there is some truth to my 150mph musing. I know if I lived there I would be driving that way.

 

But Larry tell me what's easier on the car, cruising at 4800rpm in 6th gear or driving flat out to redline in 2nd to 5th gear, fast changing both up and down the gearbox, jumping on the brakes every 10-15secs, loading up the suspension, tires, brakes, heating up the gearbox and diffs to the max........
Mark