996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.

New suspension = PSM problems ?!!

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Old May 13, 2013 | 07:20 PM
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New suspension = PSM problems ?!!

So I apologize in advance for rambling, and asking about a topic alraedy covered in a previous thread. Would like help from those who have had this issue and how to solve, please.

Recently changed out the stock suspension on my 03 turbo to Moton Coilovers. Everything was fine until I took an off ramp at a pretty good clip and lifted the throttle. I almost pooped my pants, as PSM kicked in...hard...and removed throttle and braked opposite wheel, thinking I was about to spin. Whew. No harm but embarrassment. I thought I lost a tire it was so big.
So the I took the cloverleaf over and over again with and without PSM. The car is tight and works great, but with PSM, AND any slight lifting and it kicks in. More than an annoyance to say the least.

Read that the sensors need to be recall rated, but shop did it, and still getting it. Their research shows there really isn't a fix without removing the modules or changing to a GT3 module, etc.

Reading up, it sounds as if others have "solved" this, so need some help. What can be done, and how did you do it? I don't want to disable PSM.
Thanks all!
 
Old May 13, 2013 | 11:46 PM
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What kind of Motons are they? Single or double adjustable? Do you have your alignment specs, ride heights handy?

You shouldn't have to turn off your PSM on the street unless you are driving like a complete fool. Sounds like something is amiss with the alignment for that much lift throttle snap oversteer. The TT is very forgiving in that area. Either alignment or too much gap between compression setting and rebound setting if you have double adjustables.
 
Old May 14, 2013 | 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Another P
So I apologize in advance for rambling, and asking about a topic alraedy covered in a previous thread. Would like help from those who have had this issue and how to solve, please.

Recently changed out the stock suspension on my 03 turbo to Moton Coilovers. Everything was fine until I took an off ramp at a pretty good clip and lifted the throttle. I almost pooped my pants, as PSM kicked in...hard...and removed throttle and braked opposite wheel, thinking I was about to spin. Whew. No harm but embarrassment. I thought I lost a tire it was so big.
So the I took the cloverleaf over and over again with and without PSM. The car is tight and works great, but with PSM, AND any slight lifting and it kicks in. More than an annoyance to say the least.

Read that the sensors need to be recall rated, but shop did it, and still getting it. Their research shows there really isn't a fix without removing the modules or changing to a GT3 module, etc.

Reading up, it sounds as if others have "solved" this, so need some help. What can be done, and how did you do it? I don't want to disable PSM.
Thanks all!
Check your rear toe setting. Toe out in the rear will cause snap oversteer upon throttle lift in turn..
 
Old May 14, 2013 | 11:05 AM
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Moton single adjusts. I do need to say this is a very reputable shop for the specific work and car. Its their bread and butter so to speak. The specs were "set" for a compromise mix of street and some track, so I dont eat street tires, but added some help with toe and camber so a bit better on track. Also corner balanced to 50.1% cross wt. Ride height is lower than stock, but not crazy or slammed. Dont have the exact height, but I still see the tire tops!

Frt
Camber: L -1.5 Rt -1.5
Total toe: 0.08
Caster: L 8.8 Rt 8.5

Rear
Camber: -2.2 L & Rt
Toe: .20 L & Rt
Thrust angle: 0

Thoughts?
 
Old May 14, 2013 | 11:08 AM
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Heres a side shot for height...
 
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Old May 14, 2013 | 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Another P
Heres a side shot for height...
just curious if the rear tires rubs.
 
Old May 14, 2013 | 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nyc996x50
just curious if the rear tires rubs.
No. Not at all.
For street, I run factory size (18") and factory offset wheels and standard size tires (as seen in photo), and these are with 18mm spacers in rear, 7 in front.

For track, I use the factory hollow spokes with 315s and 245s, with no spacers, and they don't rub either.
 
Old May 16, 2013 | 03:48 AM
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The owner's manual says the steering sensor needs to be re-calibrated any time the suspension is changed. Did you do that?
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Old May 16, 2013 | 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Another P
So I apologize in advance for rambling, and asking about a topic alraedy covered in a previous thread. Would like help from those who have had this issue and how to solve, please.

Recently changed out the stock suspension on my 03 turbo to Moton Coilovers. Everything was fine until I took an off ramp at a pretty good clip and lifted the throttle. I almost pooped my pants, as PSM kicked in...hard...and removed throttle and braked opposite wheel, thinking I was about to spin. Whew. No harm but embarrassment. I thought I lost a tire it was so big.
So the I took the cloverleaf over and over again with and without PSM. The car is tight and works great, but with PSM, AND any slight lifting and it kicks in. More than an annoyance to say the least.

Read that the sensors need to be recall rated, but shop did it, and still getting it. Their research shows there really isn't a fix without removing the modules or changing to a GT3 module, etc.

Reading up, it sounds as if others have "solved" this, so need some help. What can be done, and how did you do it? I don't want to disable PSM.
Thanks all!
I know you say you went to a reputable shop, but that can be argued all day long since I do not know who they are. This should not be happening with a new suspension. My car is much lower with coilovers and I never recalibrated the steering angle sensor - I have seen this more with BMW's since they are less forgiving when lowering. I have GT2 alignment specs and never get these messages with 19's on the street, or on the track with the stock turbo twists.

Ask your shop if they preloaded the control arms before they tightened everything down. If they did not do this, then it can affect the PSM because the geometry will be incorrect from the get go.
 
Old May 16, 2013 | 12:42 PM
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Back at shop. Will let them figure it out. Yes, LCAs were preloaded. Thanks for the replies. Big shout out to GMG for their second opinion. Will be double checking tolerances at wheel sensors, and logging reluctor readings.
More to come.
 
Old May 21, 2013 | 03:58 PM
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Update

Wanted to share recent HPDE event outcome. The PSM was reset, but still exhibited some intrusive behavior. However, on the track, it worked "ALMOST" flawlessly. It was a fairly wet start each day, so stayed with rain tires vs Rcomps, and played it safe and kept PSM on. At the somewhat lower speeds and more conservative driving(6/10), it kicked in only when I got ahead of myself and lifted, which is a cardinal sin anyway.
On dry track, and track tires, it was rare, but as long as I stayed on the throttle at apex and out, it didn't kick in.
So much ado about nothing. Its still there, comes on a bit more than I'd like, but was acting properly. According to the resident experts, Porsche 996 PSM is a bit less sophisticated, and is considered a bit more "intrusive" than some other systems. I can live with it.
Case closed.
 

Last edited by Another P; May 21, 2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Typo
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