996 Turbo / GT2 Turbo discussion on previous model 2000-2005 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo and 911 GT2.
View Poll Results: Are you running AWD / RWD?
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AWD / Converted to 2WD thread

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Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:12 PM
  #31  
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I don't buy into the idea that Porsche compromised on the Turbo for the sake of sufficiently differentiating the GT2/3 models. It's all about model focus.

While we all like 'more' or 'faster', and we mod our cars for such, I trust Porsche to have make the right design decisions and compromises. For the street, 4wd is king. At stock hp levels on the track, I can agree that 4wd hampers more than helps since rwd can definitely put that power level down. Perhaps 4wd becomes more advantageous after exceeding 600+hp? But there are so many other areas to improve for track times rather than hp.
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
A turbo with a GT2 suspension/power, less weight and aggressive alignment would be just that. Or better yet, adding AWD to the GT2 (adds only 75 lbs). However it has worked out very well for Porsche being able to fit multiple markets with basically the same car. AWD is a GT sort of thing, but tuned properly and connected with the right suspension, can be very potent in terms of speed.

Ultimately I still see it as a drivers aid, so I prefer not to have it (on the track), but when you are talking about street cars on street tires, AWD is a beast.
i agree. would add that the drivers aid is helpful until one learns some of the limits of the car, then it can become meddlesome. but i think early on in my ownership when i was *more* likely to get into trouble, the awd in concert with all the abs/psm helped save me from what might have been a calamitous event at least once i can think of. whereas i now see it as intrusive and cumbersome, and much prefer the way the car feels without much of it. particularly the front wheel drive.

but is it not telling that porsche had chosen rwd for their most raucous iteration of this aging yet still, as you say, potent platform? i think it is.
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TeCKis300
I don't buy into the idea that Porsche compromised on the Turbo for the sake of sufficiently differentiating the GT2/3 models. It's all about model focus.

While we all like 'more' or 'faster', and we mod our cars for such, I trust Porsche to have make the right design decisions and compromises. For the street, 4wd is king. At stock hp levels on the track, I can agree that 4wd hampers more than helps since rwd can definitely put that power level down. Perhaps 4wd becomes more advantageous after exceeding 600+hp? But there are so many other areas to improve for track times rather than hp.
You don't believe they would do that huh, what do you think they are doing with the cayman? Why no adjustable control arms on the turbo, why rubber bushings and high ride heights?

They must keep the pecking order in order.

Lol.
 

Last edited by heavychevy; Aug 17, 2014 at 01:30 PM.
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:23 PM
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I thought they made the gt2 rwd to compete in a specific class?
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by '02996ttx50
really? it's definitely a bench job and mine was out for install as iirc there is a flange that needs to be installed? i wasn't there for the trans work i had done, so my details might be sketchy.

in any event, here's a great and technical explanation of why the tbd works so well in these cars. http://www.torsen.com/files/Traction...ol_Article.pdf

and ca motorsports currently has a wavertac for sale for 1000 bucks. if anyone has trans work upcoming, i'd sure recommend they get one installed.
remove the rear axle, remove the side plate, and each bolt holding the diff in. diff then slides out on the drivers side. its tight and a challenge but it can be done. the bearings are installed on the bench and the whole assy. reinstalled
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by TeCKis300
For the street, 4wd is king. At stock hp levels on the track, I can agree that 4wd hampers more than helps since rwd can definitely put that power level down. Perhaps 4wd becomes more advantageous after exceeding 600+hp? But there are so many other areas to improve for track times rather than hp.
^ good points. agree that for the street, there really is no reason to mess with the awd. the advantages are few in that context, and the awd really does serve its function well in adverse driving conditions.
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:30 PM
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Anyone see the thread where the guy was faster around the track with awd? What about 1/4 mile? Dyno hp with it removed? 60-130 times?
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 32krazy!
remove the rear axle, remove the side plate, and each bolt holding the diff in. diff then slides out on the drivers side. its tight and a challenge but it can be done. the bearings are installed on the bench and the whole assy. reinstalled
got it. hopefully i won't have it out again.. but good to know.
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dkfx
Anyone see the thread where the guy was faster around the track with awd? What about 1/4 mile? Dyno hp with it removed? 60-130 times?
he hasn't dialed his suspension in yet for rwd so the jury is still out on his setup. for drags the awd is more of a hamper than an asset. tons of wheel hop and weight. my initial dyne with it removed with mild mods were 490 rwhp 502 ft/lbs. at present I'm 648/650 with rwd and a wavetrac no times other than 1/4 mile so far
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 01:26 PM
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Everyone talks about putting an LSD in a RWD conversion, but how does it work if car is left AWD ? It seems to me there is so little power going to front the only reason for this conversion is weight saving, in AWD it still kicks the back out fro hero moments but is so controllable, the last time I had a GT3 sideways it was like a pendulum!!! Lets face it rear engine aint the way to go for handling! Hence mid engine !!!
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by johnny.dangerous
It seems to me there is so little power going to front the only reason for this conversion is weight saving
i'm pretty sure that weight saving is one reason. but not the only reason. as to power to the front diff, isn't the minimum 5% and max up to what? 40% in extreme conditions? if you drive the car rwd all the power to the rear as opposed to the stock awd can be immediately differentiated ( sorry )
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
You don't believe they would do that huh, what do you think they are doing with the cayman? Why no adjustable control arms on the turbo, why rubber bushings and high ride heights?

They must keep the pecking order in order.

Lol.
The Cayman is a different proposition for Porsche. Frankly, so is the lesser 911's. I do agree that concessions were made there, many driven by cost.

The turbo is Porsche's top of the line GT car. Rubber bushings and ride heights, etc., are a GREAT thing for the street. A GT2/GT3 are track focused. They would not perform on the street better than the turbo in the majority of measures that make a great street car, such as NVH, all weather handling, etc.

Their differences are more driven by objectives that have divergent engineering solutions rather than any cost/pecking order factors.

Many of the mods we do as enthusiast, negatively affect the balance that porsche designed into the turbo as a street car. We as individuals choose to live with and enjoy those compromises to tailer what we want out of our vehicles.

The 2wd/4wd is a personal decision rather than one inherently being better under every use case.
 
Old Aug 17, 2014 | 06:38 PM
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I think we are saying the same thing. My only point is that Porsche didn't leave out most of the motorsports parts on the Turbo because the AWD would have ruined it and made it slower. They did it because they wanted the separation in the models. An AWD equipped GT2 would have been a beast. 996 or 997. The 996 wasn't called the widow maker for nothing.
 
Old Aug 19, 2014 | 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Prototech
Mine is RWD with a Guard LSD and wouldn't have it any other way ! Definantely a handful but with the right wheel / tire combo can be a blast to drive.
Can you elaborate please, what is the LSD?
 
Old Aug 19, 2014 | 06:20 PM
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^ something you'll need to install if you plan on driving your rwd porsche turbo with any semblance of stability lol
 


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