My story with Albert Motorsport in Germany, pretty well known shop in Germany: https://9lf.de/en/

In summary:

Albert Motorsport exceeded their cost estimate of my 996 Turbo engine rebuild project by a significant amount, but I paid it. I then got back an engine that did not work due to misfires. I got it solved by changing new Variocam solenoid myself. I drove the engine for 3000 kilometers during summer before it died. The engine case was destroyed! Not sure what has been the cause of the problem. When opening the engine my mechanic finds out Albert has used parts that look like low-cost Taiwanese connecting rods. Albert refuses any kind of warranty for me, and blames me for not bringing the car to his shop after the engine died. But after all that bringing the car back to his shop was not first in mind.

I am now searching for a new or a used engine for the car. In my subjective view this has been a huge loss.

Do you have any views or similar experiences with Albert Motorsport?

What type of goodwill you have received in these type of situations?

Full story, just to clear my head:

My 996 Turbo had approx 50k miles / 80k kilometers. It was misfiring cylinder bank 2 relatively often on long straights at the track during the 2015 season and had to change plugs/coils often. I thought better to have a full rebuild for the engine during winter 2016.

I started asking different shops in Germany how much a basic improved engine rebuild with 3.8L pistons, Carrillo rods and Motorsport oil pump would cost. That should bring me quite solid and very safe 600hp+ setup as my car already had larger turbos, fuel injectors, intercoolers, exhaust, turbo inlet pipes etc.

Here is a clip from my emails asking if Albert Motorsport can do it and what is the cost estimate:



That sounded OK to me. Upgraded engine around 15000 euros and they will let me know about the cost in more detail. I choose Albert!

They got the car, I hear nothing about a cost estimate, but they tell me the following in writing:
- No cylinder head work is needed, so I save some money
- They want to use their rods that cost 950EUR+tax, OK for 1200hp they claim, sounds OK to me. And better price than Carrillos.
- They see the car has empty cats, they require to install new ones. I tell them I don't want to, but at the end of the day I let them install new set because they should know this best as professionals.
- They find "many small defects" but tell me the pistons and oil pump are in very good shape (as they should be with relatively low mileage) and they ask me do I really want to change them. I reply in that case I don't need them to be changed, and I feel happy I will save around 5500 EUR worth of parts (if piston set is 4000 EUR and oil pump is 1500 EUR).

- They complete the rebuild and do a new dyno tune for the car for 1250 EUR, end result was 608hp/858Nm. I was expecting closer to 650hp with my turbo setup but different dynos give out different figures and top power is not crucial because I do mainly track days.
- I ask them to do a new wheel alignment at the same time and provide exact figures I like for track use.

After that, they tell car is ready and will send the invoice to me.

Based on above, I assume the invoice should be the initial estimate 15000 with:
- XXX, for not doing any cylinder head work
- 5500, for not using new Mahle pistons and Motorsport oil pump
- 800, for paying just 950 EUR+tax for the rods and not 2000 EUR as I thought Carrillos would cost
+ 1000, for new race cats (how much can they cost?)
+ 1250, for dyno tune, and
+ 500, for wheel alignment
= at maximum 11 450 EUR

Of course, most of the time the final bill will be bit more with these type of projects. There are always random extra costs involved, but around that price plus some more was my expectation.

Then the email arrives to my inbox. Here's the final page:



Over 19 000 EUR, not anywhere near my estimated 11 000 EUR!

To summarize my thoughts: I ended up getting less new parts and less expensive parts for the engine while the price is significantly higher. Albert first gave me an estimate of 15 000 EUR when I asked about the 3.8L and Motorsport goodies, and also told me I will get the exact cost estimate when they see the amount of work required. I never got another cost estimate, just the final invoice.

I was thinking of legal actions at this stage as Albert declines to come down in the price.

After some time, I accept my defeat and pay the bill. I had to get the car back from Albert and start the driving. I thought I have to get over this and take this is a one-off cost for the next 20 years.

So, a friend of mine goes pick up the car after I transferred the money.

He tells the steering wheel is not straight, which I find amateurish after the alignment. Even earlier the alignment was such a difficult job to do at Albert, Albert could not understand I prefer toe-out for the front axle for best turn-in and had to re-do the front axle.

That's just a small inconvenience but the same misfires of the engine happen after 50 km of driving from Albert!

I tell my friend to immediately bring the car to Albert to get it fixed. I am getting nervous what is happening.

When the car is at Albert, I google around for misfires on a specific cylinder bank and find out Variocam solenoid can be a reason. I tell Albert to change the Variocam solenoid and its bracket with all the pictures and data I have found, while he responds there are these type of electric problems it is because the car has a RWD conversion and would now need a new ECU! A ridiculous claim.

He politely tells they are too busy as they have a race season starting and lots of race cars in preparation.

I am getting very anxious, I have just paid over 19 000 EUR for the rebuild, lot more than I was supposed to, and the car is not working and the builder speak about electric problems with RWD. I have all this in writing in our email discussions.

So, my mechanic picks up the car. We start fixing Albert's job by changing the Variocam solenoid & bracket and pray for the best. The misfires are luckily gone and the engine works as it should.

What a project it was! Seems I did a big rebuild for an engine with relatively low miles only because of the Variocam solenoid!?

After the rebuild I drive approx. 2000 miles (3000 km) with the car, then some noise happens on the track and the engine dies, here is the incar video of the exact moment:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qhsznebgux...reKai.mp4?dl=0

Don't know about the reason for that. There is no error code such as low oil or low oil pressure.

We get the engine opened, and find out the damage is bad.

A hole in the engine case:



These are the connecting rods found from the engine:





These look like low-cost Taiwanese Maxspeedingrods that cost like 500USD in Ebay for a full set, but it seems Albert has used some grey paint to hide the company logo from these rods:





Sure, it is hard to say what caused the damage, perhaps oil lubrication problem? But I didn't got any oil warning lights and I was initially asking to install a new oil pump.

At this stage Albert refuses warranty or other type of help, and blames me for not bringing the car directly to their workshop to have the engine fixed.

As of today I need a new engine for the car. With a new stock engine I will need a new ECU tune as well to have the torque toned down. Even when optimizing the costs I will end up spending around 40 000 EUR in total to get the car to the same condition it was before I emailed Albert in the first place.

I am losing motivation for this hobby, and am now publishing my story for you guys to evaluate the situation and ask your advice.

If the engine blow up is more difficult to prove to be Albert's fault, I have been also discussing with a German lawyer to start a case based on the initial 19 000 EUR of cost instead of 11 000 EUR, but not sure if that's worth the hassle in a foreign country.

Thanks for any comments. Sorry for the long post, I had to vent!

-Kai

 

Ugh, that is awful. I hope you can get some sort of compensation. The amount of negative press that you can give them between Facebook, rennlist, 6speed, yelp, etc. should have them thinking twice before dismissing you. If you get nothing from them, make their lives a living hell.

 

its a very sad story to say the least. one always wants the shop doing the work to have as much passion for your car as you do.

as it sits you have a roller car with no motor. so your choices are either find a used motor local install it and sell it. find a used motor local install it and drive the car in stock or mildly modifed form. or find a used motor send it to a better more qualified shop with exact directions on what you want done. rods , studs 3.8 conversion , all new gaskets and seals etc.

it truly boils down to what you can afford and how you feel deep down inside about your car. for example mine has been up and down with some issues for about 2 yrs. i do as much work as i can to keep costs down but in the end i dont care of it took another 5 yrs i have no desire to get rid of the car. i see it as a passion of mine and hopefully gets passed on to my family when im long gone for them to enjoy.

if i can be of any help just ask. i know were many parts are located and maybe i can help you get the car back to racing form

 

soemthing like this would get you well on your way to a rebuilt motor for not a lot of cash. ladismantler isnt the cheapest around but they do ship worldwide and this is what you need to start on a new motor

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-911-996-997-GT2-Turbo-Engine-Case-Block-Crank-Complete-3-6L-/172255589602?fits=Make%3APorsche%7CSubmodel%3ATurb o&hash=item281b3bb4e2:g:Q88AAOSwHnFVyk91&vxp=mtr

heres a complete motor that is being sold by a forum member who has been in good standing on the forum. he might be a way to go

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...bo-engine.html

 

Get a lawer , he should at least pay you back the 19K you gave for that bad taiwanese rod job , or find you a new engine . who uses painted rods anyway ? Just searched some infos about him and do they really repair and prepare racecars with this attitude ? spechless ...

 

I am also very curious why didnt you go with fvd or 9ff ?

 

Sorry to hear all of that .. it's a shame !!

I have used 996tt complete engine .. if you want more details PM plz !!

Good luck

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Guys here are really great at diagnosing the cause of the engine damage. Could you post a pic of the top of the blown piston and any other pieces of the blown rod? It looks like that rod just let go on you at first glance. I would be super pissed if someone put chinese rods in my motor. Your heads and cyl housings should be good. You can sell those parts at least.

 

Thanks for all the views and information.

Another data point I find strange for the 19 000 EUR original invoice is Albert advertises these exact similar rebuilds (for 996 Carrera though) at around 10 000 EUR on their site, with 2 years of warranty of course...



Ful list what they claim to do is just like my project:

https://9lf.de/en/996-carrera/467-al...l#.WJdsdfkrI2w

 

does the 10.000 euros include gold painted alibaba rods ?

 

So sorry to hear this Kai. I am here for you if you need help stateside. Wished for as swift a resolution as possible for you!

 

Hi,

that's a really sad story. I understand that you need to vent and would like to mention some points:

I don't know any car that had an engine build being done by them. All others I know have built engines with (way) more power than yours.

Some of them do run the exact rods you mentioned. Not sure if Albert used them, but if, they hold way more torque than your car made. Some 1000 hp cars are running these. I know a 996TT running over 2 bar of boost with these rods and so far they hold. You are running way less boost. I guess you are in the range of 1.3 to 1.4 bar, depending on timing.

After 3000 km trouble free run, you can't blame the engine as being the root cause. If something went wrong with the build, it would have shown up much earlier in my opinion.

Don't expect any. Did they give you any kind of warranty? As a consumer you have a 2 year warranty, but it's not as easy to get thru as it seems. If you are still in the first 6 months of your warranty: hurry. That's perfect for an attorney because if nothing else is in the way, Albert would need to prove that it wasn't their fault. After 6 months you need to prove it was their fault. There is more to it, but that's the base line.

Did they give you the initial quote in writing? That would be good if there is in writing that the oil pump is being replaced and Carillo rods and so on.

If you are brave, you can hire an attorney but if the case is complicated, you might end up throwing another 5 grand into the game for nothing.

860 Nm is nothing for these rods. I know people who run this all day on stock rods - given your fuel is decent.

Maybe an injector went out? Or a plug or coil and you ignored it? Just a thing or two to check. I'm not saying you have caused the problem.

Check the tune. Who knows what they did there. Probably disabled know detection or run way too much timing. Difficult to get them, but worth a try. My guess is that they don't do the tunes themselves but buy them from somebody.

Apparently. Sad story. The builder should have found this problem as well. As a matter of fact the problem should have shown on the dyno. My guess is: the car has never seen a dyno but just got a software flashed.

You are a passionate driver and have fun racing as far I can tell. Don't let this engine failure take you the fun.

If you need help here in Germany, drop me a note. Not sure if I can help, but asking costs nothing

Andreas

 

I would beg to disagree on this one. And a material defect can also definitively develop over time.

From the pictures it's pretty obvious to me that something has came off and flown around inside the engine to cause such damage that you can see on the pistons and the rods.

 

Sure, why not. But it's difficult to say which part flew off first. I am not able to tell.

But 3000 km is quite some time. Enough to check other possibilities as well. That's what I wanted to say.

 

Yes we need more evidence. We shouldn't jump to conclusions before we look at all possibilities. The top of the piston can tell some of the story. We need to see the sidewalls in the cylinder as well. Hopefully there is something left of the bearing so it can be checked for wear or smashing.