I am dead serious, you want me to call you tonight?

 

Yeah

 

Chad, I did not mean to come off derogatory or trite with my response. I was just commenting on the bang per buck ratio Chuckie aka dan996tt illuded too...While I agree you would have developed the most hp had you been able to attend, sadly it appears that the law of financial diminishing returns comes into play...For 35K the Red beast gets reasonably close to the much pricer albeit higher hp you have. Please, no offense was intended... I'm just a lowely NA guy with an amazing handling car, so who am I to say otherwise...

 

rockitman,

I may come back and eat these words, but something does not appear to be right. Raising the boost is an extremely inexpensive short sighted way of making power if that is all that was done. I do not believe you can do everything required to operate reliabilily at 1.5 bar for 35K. I have run induction air temperature tests. My intercoolers are much more efficient than stock or GT2 intercoolers. I can't run my motor above 1.3 bar for too very long without incurring elevated induction air temperatures which can lead to detonation. I can just imagine the temperatures they are seeing at 1.5 bar, I have spent alot of time and money to insure my system will consistently hold thirty-two pounds. Through trial and error we have learned what is needed. Again, properly sized intercoolers, tubing and reinforcing for 1.5 bar is still a little on the expensive side. This does not even take into consideration the clutch, rods or the stock single index (pick up) oil pump (which is not designed to scavage sufficient oil during high G force turns or rapid starts)

P.S. Your constructive criticism is always welcome. I have been wrong in the past and I'm sure I will be wrong in the future. I just don't change my position easily. However, when proven wrong I do change.

 

Chad...Thanks for sharing those details...very informative!!!

:-)

 

Can someone post some pics from today???
TKS

 

In light of our technical difficulties and the inherent weakness of the tiptronic, the day is still considered a success. You have to consider it a success given the company that surrounded us - myself, Kevin, Rob King, Todd Zuccone, Todd Knightington and his wife and Michael By Design. My hat truly goes off to the people that took the time, effort and came for the show.
The party would have been complete if Duane and Chad had shown up. With all sincerity.
Sleepless in LA...catch you guys tomorrow.

 

May I come to buttonwillow to see the action tommorow? I would love to see this horsepower orgy in person.

 

I was out all day, just read the entire thread. Really interesting stuff. I can't believe the power Tyson(Protomotive) made. WOW!! Chad, I think Tyson is running 1.2 bar at most. He had said that for a time he ran 1.3 bar but felt it unsafe for longevity. He told me he was comfortable running 1.2, so I am fairly sure his numbers were achieved with that boost. I belive as many of you that simply raising the boost is not a good indication of real world numbers. Tommorrow will be interesting once everyone turns down their boost. What sux about the "artificial" boost numbers is that technically when boost is lowered to a safer level, the highest hp cars could very well prove to be the slowest. I'll bet Tyson's car cleans up in the rest of the events. Good luck everyone, Buddy really sorry to hear about your problem, hopefully will be fixed tommorrow. Good luck, hope it works out for you.

Lou

 

Am I missing something here? I was there most of the day and I believe Freds car posted the highest official power and yet everyone seems to be talking about all the other cars. I have to say that not only did he post the highest power but, the car is very cool looking aswell so, heres my two cents .... Great Job Fred!

 

how about we team up together

 

This event really looks like a no-holds barred deal.

If you are coming to win, why would you run low boost???

I have read many comments about people wanting to limit boost to about 1.2 bar? Why? Have some of you lost motors? Compressive load on the rods does not go up much with boost. And boost does not tax the rod bolt or cap. RPM's do. If your A/F is good,, egt's are in check, the motor is not detonating and the boost is not coming at an extremely low rpm I dought there would be many problems.

I had two clients competing in the Audi S4 challenge about 2 months ago. The mentality of most competitors (who want to win!) is why show up if you are out-gunned to begin with! Crank up the boost if you want to win. This is not a 100,000 mile test!

It was great to meet many of you at the dyno (I was helping GIAC strap the car down) and I wish you all a sincere good luck in the next day.

Jeff Moss

 

If you are serious shoot me a pm or e-mail me at sticky@germantechnik.com I know this is kind of sudden, and it is 4 am, but hey, why not?

 

Jeff,

I orginally got this idea going and sharkster picked it up and then ran with the ball. The orginal intent was for the tuners to showcase to everyone what they are providing to the general public. In my opinion what I read about yesterday, in many cases had nothing to do with what they provide. I doubt (and I hope I am wrong) if the cars that were running the high boost had any provisions for handling the boost other than on a dyno. Even at that, their torque numbers will suffer in most cases. It will be real interesting if European Car goes into detail as to what was specifically done on each car along with publishing the complete dyno graphs including average hp and torque.

Questions for starters, were the intercoolers sized to handle the elevated induction air temperatures? Was the induction air piping enlarged and hard piped and reinforced to keep from losing boost? Judging from some accompaning torque numbers and boost leaks, I would guess the answer to be no. Most tuners match their turbo A/R ratio to their boost and what they are trying to do with the motor .... not simply turning the **** or adjusting the ECU or boost controller.

Then again, maybe I'm the one that is confused. This isn't a tuner shoot out for the tuners to display what they offer. This is a no holds bared get together for anyone who cared to come. Jeff, this could be the answer to your question in an earlier post regarding why none of the European tuners chose to participate. Looking back at what I heard about yesterday, I'm glad I also choose to pass.

 

I can accept if everyone wants to win "take no prisoners". The only thing I am really pleading for is full disclosure. Like CJV said, I want to see the performance of the engineering shown by the tuners, not who was willing to take the biggest risk with his plant. If Tyson in fact ran 1.2 boost, he kicked but yesterday. I doubt everyone will have the boost cranked for the track event. They probably will for the quarter mile.

I also have a prediction, unless they really put a difficult stress test on the braking, I'll bet that the big reds do not outstop the stock brakes! Tires (traction) will be the controlling factor.