Shootout updates as they happen live from the source!
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Originally posted by watt
Originally posted by cjv
"Like I said earlier, what I thought was to transpire and what has transpired is two different things. My gut feeling is all anyone learned yesterday was raise your boost. It kind of reminds me of a gal with a outrageous figure .... that is if you like padded bras. "
or dyno dweebs plumb out of Viagra
Originally posted by cjv
"Like I said earlier, what I thought was to transpire and what has transpired is two different things. My gut feeling is all anyone learned yesterday was raise your boost. It kind of reminds me of a gal with a outrageous figure .... that is if you like padded bras. "
or dyno dweebs plumb out of Viagra
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Originally posted by LSM
The boost thing was bad enough, now the tires? My problem with the boost, was not that they were at 1.5 bar. My problem is the notion that for the dyno, it was turned up to 1.5, then for the road coarse and braking turned back down and then possibly back up for the dragstrip. That isn't what any of us consumers could have. You want to run at 1.5bar? great run it for all the events and make that your available package to consumers. Who the hell changes boost for each situation, that's a joke IMO.
Not the same tires!!! Hoosiers are much more sticky than the sport cups!! What this is, although I am interested, isn't proving or comparing anything other than who made the best adjustments for that particular performance test. It's like we are watching an indy race where they adjust everything every time they pit during practice runs. I wish it was required that everyone used the same tires and wheels. Also, the rules should have said, no adjustments to programming. Again, you run 1.1, 1.5, or 2.0 bar at the dyno, you should be required to run it everywhere. Its not like we stuff our own little personal tuner in our trunks to change the state of tune of our cars for every situation. Frustrating
Lou
BTW, I do wish everyone luck and do appreciate the sharing of info. My comments are based on 2nd hand info, so if what is being said is untrue, I apologize if I offended anyone with the above comments. If the 2nd hand info is true, I stand by the above
The boost thing was bad enough, now the tires? My problem with the boost, was not that they were at 1.5 bar. My problem is the notion that for the dyno, it was turned up to 1.5, then for the road coarse and braking turned back down and then possibly back up for the dragstrip. That isn't what any of us consumers could have. You want to run at 1.5bar? great run it for all the events and make that your available package to consumers. Who the hell changes boost for each situation, that's a joke IMO.
Not the same tires!!! Hoosiers are much more sticky than the sport cups!! What this is, although I am interested, isn't proving or comparing anything other than who made the best adjustments for that particular performance test. It's like we are watching an indy race where they adjust everything every time they pit during practice runs. I wish it was required that everyone used the same tires and wheels. Also, the rules should have said, no adjustments to programming. Again, you run 1.1, 1.5, or 2.0 bar at the dyno, you should be required to run it everywhere. Its not like we stuff our own little personal tuner in our trunks to change the state of tune of our cars for every situation. Frustrating
Lou
BTW, I do wish everyone luck and do appreciate the sharing of info. My comments are based on 2nd hand info, so if what is being said is untrue, I apologize if I offended anyone with the above comments. If the 2nd hand info is true, I stand by the above
Why is that so wrong. It is all accessible via remote.
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Originally posted by J.Moss
GIAC can have multiple programs that is accessable via remote control. Multiple boost levels, different gas programs, anti-thft...
Why is that so wrong. It is all accessible via remote.
GIAC can have multiple programs that is accessable via remote control. Multiple boost levels, different gas programs, anti-thft...
Why is that so wrong. It is all accessible via remote.
Not wrong. Is that what they are using? The chipswitch? Is 1.5 bar available on the stage 5 kit they sell? How about on the Stage 4GT kit? I know not on the Stage 4 GT. and I am pretty sure that 1.5 bar is not one of the choices on teh Stage 5 either. It was raised for the sole purpose of posting the highest HP imo.
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Originally posted by Duane
I agree but obviously that did not work by the results.
I agree but obviously that did not work by the results.
I agree. Things do not always turn out how you want them. I am sure that most at the event have been surprised at how things turned out.
My point with the chipswitch is that the option for boost or fuel is there for you as long as the software exist from GIAC.
Jeff
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Originally posted by Duane
I agree but obviously that did not work by the results.
I agree but obviously that did not work by the results.
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Guys, sure the shootout was not perfect. It was a learning experience, first time this has been done for the 911 turbo community I believe. I am glad it happened and the next time around it should be much better with all we have learned about how the tests are setup. It is better to have a shootout with some teething problems than not have one at all.
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Originally posted by LSM
Also, the rules should have said, no adjustments to programming. Again, you run 1.1, 1.5, or 2.0 bar at the dyno, you should be required to run it everywhere. Its not like we stuff our own little personal tuner in our trunks to change the state of tune of our cars for every situation. Frustrating
Also, the rules should have said, no adjustments to programming. Again, you run 1.1, 1.5, or 2.0 bar at the dyno, you should be required to run it everywhere. Its not like we stuff our own little personal tuner in our trunks to change the state of tune of our cars for every situation. Frustrating
I agree with you for the most part in that it would have been more informative if some of these variables had been controlled for. For example, using a spec tire would have made the road course and braking comparisons more apples-to-apples. On the other hand, the rules were clearly stated and, like in racing, those who exploit the rules to their advantage usually win. I don't think there's any way around that. No matter what rules you come up with, there's always a way to turn them to your advantage. When I used to run in the Spec RX7 series it was amazing to see the difference in performance from front to back of the pack. If you took one of the front running drivers and put him in one of the back of the pack cars, generally the best they could muster was a mid pack finish. And this in a class that was purportedly made up of "equally prepared" cars. I guess some cars were just more equal than others.
Also, I agree that the participants should have been required to at least state the boost level they were running at each event so that people can judge for themselves whether or not they want a particular setup. For example, if it was said that "I'm comfortable running 1.5 bar in a 1/4 mile, but only 1.2 bar for a 1.8 mile road course", that would allow you to make sense of the varying performances and decide whether or not you like a particular tuner's package.
Lastly, with regard to the tuner in the trunk issue. With the chipswitch, you can effectively get your tuner in your center console.
I've got a more or less stock program, a 90 octane (620ish) HP program, and a 94 octane (640ish) HP program. Todd also offered me the 100 HP program, similar to the one Fred ran. I haven't loaded it yet... but probably will although I'm not likely to use it ever. Any way, the point is, the car doesn't need to be programmed each time. You can simply press a button to choose the performance level...Cheers,
Last edited by racer63; Dec 2, 2003 at 09:43 PM.
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Originally posted by racer63
Hey Lou -
I agree with you for the most part in that it would have been more informative if some of these variables had been controlled for. For example, using a spec tire would have made the road course and braking comparisons more apples-to-apples. On the other hand, the rules were clearly stated and, like in racing, those who exploit the rules to their advantage usually win. I don't think there's any way around that. No matter what rules you come up with, there's always a way to turn them to your advantage. When I used to run in the Spec RX7 series it was amazing to see the difference in performance from front to back of the pack. If you took one of the front running drivers and put him in one of the back of the pack cars, generally the best they could muster was a mid pack finish. And this in a class that was purportedly made up of "equally prepared" cars. I guess some cars were just more equal than others.
Also, I agree that the participants should have been required to at least state the boost level they were running at each event so that people can judge for themselves whether or not they want a particular setup. For example, if it was said that "I'm comfortable running 1.5 bar in a 1/4 mile, but only 1.2 bar for a 1.8 mile road course", that would allow you to make sense of the varying performances and decide whether or not you like a particular tuner's package.
Lastly, with regard to the tuner in the trunk issue. With the chipswitch, you can effectively get your tuner in your center console. I've got a more or less stock program, a 90 octane (620ish) HP program, and a 94 octane (640ish) HP program. Todd also offered me the 100 HP program, similar to the one Fred ran. I haven't loaded it yet... but probably will although I'm not likely to use it ever. Any way, the point is, the car doesn't need to be programmed each time. You can simply press a button to choose the performance level...
Cheers,
Hey Lou -
I agree with you for the most part in that it would have been more informative if some of these variables had been controlled for. For example, using a spec tire would have made the road course and braking comparisons more apples-to-apples. On the other hand, the rules were clearly stated and, like in racing, those who exploit the rules to their advantage usually win. I don't think there's any way around that. No matter what rules you come up with, there's always a way to turn them to your advantage. When I used to run in the Spec RX7 series it was amazing to see the difference in performance from front to back of the pack. If you took one of the front running drivers and put him in one of the back of the pack cars, generally the best they could muster was a mid pack finish. And this in a class that was purportedly made up of "equally prepared" cars. I guess some cars were just more equal than others.
Also, I agree that the participants should have been required to at least state the boost level they were running at each event so that people can judge for themselves whether or not they want a particular setup. For example, if it was said that "I'm comfortable running 1.5 bar in a 1/4 mile, but only 1.2 bar for a 1.8 mile road course", that would allow you to make sense of the varying performances and decide whether or not you like a particular tuner's package.
Lastly, with regard to the tuner in the trunk issue. With the chipswitch, you can effectively get your tuner in your center console.
I've got a more or less stock program, a 90 octane (620ish) HP program, and a 94 octane (640ish) HP program. Todd also offered me the 100 HP program, similar to the one Fred ran. I haven't loaded it yet... but probably will although I'm not likely to use it ever. Any way, the point is, the car doesn't need to be programmed each time. You can simply press a button to choose the performance level...Cheers,
Lou
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Originally posted by sticky
If there is no program for 1.5 bar that you can get with the stage 4gt package, then it is kind of pointless to have a stage 4 gt compete with 1.5 bar.
If there is no program for 1.5 bar that you can get with the stage 4gt package, then it is kind of pointless to have a stage 4 gt compete with 1.5 bar.
Lou
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It is nice to have the highest hp, however it is my guess the highest hp car in the shootout did not have the highest average hp or torque. Get them to post the full numbers and you will probably be very surprised.
As for varing boost, why use a switcher? An adaptive boost controller offers far more options. Another plus is you are not limited to usng GIAC.
As for varing boost, why use a switcher? An adaptive boost controller offers far more options. Another plus is you are not limited to usng GIAC.
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Originally posted by LSM
You make some great points I didn't even think of because I was so fired up. I guess what I am trying to figure out is, does GIAC actually sell a program that raises boost to 1.5 bar? I mean is that one of the programs sold to the public, 1.5bar. I was under the impression there was chip tuning going on after each event or worse, different ECU were switched in and out.
Lou
You make some great points I didn't even think of because I was so fired up. I guess what I am trying to figure out is, does GIAC actually sell a program that raises boost to 1.5 bar? I mean is that one of the programs sold to the public, 1.5bar. I was under the impression there was chip tuning going on after each event or worse, different ECU were switched in and out.
Lou
Given Fred's dyno results, my guess is that peak HP was reached at about 1.3 bar. Also, his torque figure was really low (mine was 582 with the 94 octane program). So, I'm not sure what that's about... Makes me wonder if his boost really did peak at 1.5 bar at any point in the RPM range. Do we know for a fact that he was running 1.5 bar at any point on the dyno? Or is this a rumor? Looks doubtful to me, although I've seen some pretty anamolous dyno charts before... So I guess nothing would totally surprise me.
