996TT street car suspension advice?
#16
when i picked up my car it had PSS10's and about 50K total miles on it. It was an '01
Within the first 2 months I replaced Motor Mounts, Trans Mount, and Front Strut Top Mounts....all were pretty shot.
Curious, I read little about the rear strut top mounts going bad, is there a reason for this?
Within the first 2 months I replaced Motor Mounts, Trans Mount, and Front Strut Top Mounts....all were pretty shot.
Curious, I read little about the rear strut top mounts going bad, is there a reason for this?
#17
well, that'd answer that!
#18
I recently removed Eibach/Techart lowering springs/stock shocks and replaced them with H&R Street coilovers. I also installed Tarrett monoball camber plates in the front. The lowering springs were on the car when I bought it.
My impressions with the mismatched springs/shocks were that the car cornered quite flat but was a bit skittish. The car would shake out your fillings with every little bump in the road. The car now has the slightest bit more roll, but the tires actually stay in contact with the road making for a better cornering experience. The ride is quite nice, just like a sports car should be. The monoball camber plates are not noticeable for transmitting any additional NVH that I can tell.
I had the car aligned after I bought it and the car could not get the camber into spec alignment, front or rear. That first alignment found the toe-in was also way off in the rear causing premature tire wear.
Thanks to the countless forum posts from those who came before us there is bountiful information if you can find the time to search and read. Here are my opinions:
1. I could have just gone with the B8 shocks, it was definitely a cheaper option, but I thought the car was just too low. I was able to find a nice balance in adjusting the coilovers by going to the lowest range of recommended settings in the front and the highest in the rear. It is super easy to adjust in the driveway. You can't do that with lowering springs.
2. The coilovers and top plates allowed a bit more camber adjustment on the front as there is now room to slide the camber plate to the outside to reduce the camber. I'm not sure if that is due to the reduced spring diameter or the camber plate or both. I'm not within spec, but within an aggressive alignment number.
3. I too have 19" RUF wheels and spacers that came with the car. I will admit to not understanding why an 18" wheel is better for performance, but I also don't care. I'm not wringing out the last bit of cornering or acceleration performance out of the car and I am of the belief that you can't (or shouldn't) do that anyway on a public road. You can have plenty of fun with this car and never approach the possibilities. My old set up had some evidence of tire rubbing in the wheel wells, but that is now gone.
4. For some strange reason my caster angle changed after installing the coilovers. Bonus fun fact for you. There is no adjustment for caster and I'm not sure why that would even change.
5. The rears are slightly out of stock spec for camber, but my understanding is the adjustment is on the lower control arm. The Hound has been pretty consistent in his messaging that dog bones are not needed. But an adjustable LCA could be helpful. Any extra tire wear will be coming from an incorrect toe alignment.
6. I've read quite a bit about replacing motor and transmission mounts as that fixes some lateral shifting. That might be so for a car that has bushings that are gone or broken. But I'm not convinced that it is a necessary upgrade for a street car. Both mounts look relatively easy to replace, so I'd wait to see how the car feels after your suspension refresh. I'm about to pull my transmission to replace the clutch, so I'll be taking a good hard look while I'm under there.
7. The coilovers came with drop links for the front, the rears are adjustable. As time goes by I'll be looking to upgrade the swaybars and some bushings, but for now the car rides and corners just fine. I don't have any canyons to goof around in, but I think I could get up and down just fine.
I'm sure whatever direction you go will result in a better handling car. Good luck!
Chris
My impressions with the mismatched springs/shocks were that the car cornered quite flat but was a bit skittish. The car would shake out your fillings with every little bump in the road. The car now has the slightest bit more roll, but the tires actually stay in contact with the road making for a better cornering experience. The ride is quite nice, just like a sports car should be. The monoball camber plates are not noticeable for transmitting any additional NVH that I can tell.
I had the car aligned after I bought it and the car could not get the camber into spec alignment, front or rear. That first alignment found the toe-in was also way off in the rear causing premature tire wear.
Thanks to the countless forum posts from those who came before us there is bountiful information if you can find the time to search and read. Here are my opinions:
1. I could have just gone with the B8 shocks, it was definitely a cheaper option, but I thought the car was just too low. I was able to find a nice balance in adjusting the coilovers by going to the lowest range of recommended settings in the front and the highest in the rear. It is super easy to adjust in the driveway. You can't do that with lowering springs.
2. The coilovers and top plates allowed a bit more camber adjustment on the front as there is now room to slide the camber plate to the outside to reduce the camber. I'm not sure if that is due to the reduced spring diameter or the camber plate or both. I'm not within spec, but within an aggressive alignment number.
3. I too have 19" RUF wheels and spacers that came with the car. I will admit to not understanding why an 18" wheel is better for performance, but I also don't care. I'm not wringing out the last bit of cornering or acceleration performance out of the car and I am of the belief that you can't (or shouldn't) do that anyway on a public road. You can have plenty of fun with this car and never approach the possibilities. My old set up had some evidence of tire rubbing in the wheel wells, but that is now gone.
4. For some strange reason my caster angle changed after installing the coilovers. Bonus fun fact for you. There is no adjustment for caster and I'm not sure why that would even change.
5. The rears are slightly out of stock spec for camber, but my understanding is the adjustment is on the lower control arm. The Hound has been pretty consistent in his messaging that dog bones are not needed. But an adjustable LCA could be helpful. Any extra tire wear will be coming from an incorrect toe alignment.
6. I've read quite a bit about replacing motor and transmission mounts as that fixes some lateral shifting. That might be so for a car that has bushings that are gone or broken. But I'm not convinced that it is a necessary upgrade for a street car. Both mounts look relatively easy to replace, so I'd wait to see how the car feels after your suspension refresh. I'm about to pull my transmission to replace the clutch, so I'll be taking a good hard look while I'm under there.
7. The coilovers came with drop links for the front, the rears are adjustable. As time goes by I'll be looking to upgrade the swaybars and some bushings, but for now the car rides and corners just fine. I don't have any canyons to goof around in, but I think I could get up and down just fine.
I'm sure whatever direction you go will result in a better handling car. Good luck!
Chris
#19
Could you please explain a bit more? I thought they were needed to get a good alignment on a lowered car. Yes, the suggestion for dog bones came from a shop, and they also suggested pss10 instead of bilstein b8 + springs. Maybe I do need to run in the other direction....
Last edited by pwdrhound; 01-02-2018 at 03:50 PM.
#20
its no coincidence that porsche made no optional offerings of 19's for 996 turbo's.
#21
but if I have to go with PS2 to stick with 18s, that's a big step down from the RE71R available for 19s. If I was going to use cup2 or r888r that are available in both 18 and 19 I can see the argument for 18s (I'm not going to an r comp)Am I missing something?Also, any preferred vendors in the SF Bay Area? I reached out to Sharkwerks and S car go.
there is a reason the saying goes : "19's for "show" and 18's for "GO" lol
as to shops in NorCal? i only know of s car go and of course there is sharkwerks you already know of. gotta be more up there, but those two have stellar reps. GL
#22
yes, they do. they ( 19 ) offer a 'harsher" ride and obviously fill the wheel well more which can be felt in hard canyoning, and they can/do often rub at hard lock. anywhere else on the street? i'd tend to agree, the difference would be marginal.
its no coincidence that porsche made no optional offerings of 19's for 996 turbo's.
its no coincidence that porsche made no optional offerings of 19's for 996 turbo's.
as for rubbing on full lock, if you're running a 245 front, they are the same diameter whether they are 18s or 19s. They would both rub the same.
#23
fair enough. i cant remember what i ran with 19's was LONG ago but my experience was they are inconducive to comfortably driving on either harsh roads, OR harsh canyoning. we may have different driving experiences to go with our different recommendations on wheels/tire sizes etc lol. so, that's cool.
#24
fair enough. i cant remember what i ran with 19's was LONG ago but my experience was they are inconducive to comfortably driving on either harsh roads, OR harsh canyoning. we may have different driving experiences to go with our different recommendations on wheels/tire sizes etc lol. so, that's cool.
#25
FWIW, I happened upon a set of 20's and ran them on my car, rode very well... it's all about dampers... Ohlins FTW.
Have thought about going 19's and 7GT tire sizes for tire options
Monoball all you can, deflection is not your friend.
Have thought about going 19's and 7GT tire sizes for tire options
Monoball all you can, deflection is not your friend.
#26
OP, at minimum inspect and refresh bushings, I'd recommend solid LCA thrust arm bushings and LCA monoballs at rear. Toe-arms are not required until you go very(too) low (I do alignments)...nice to have but not required.
Springs and shocks work well, if springing (pun intended) for coilovers, strongly consider the Ohlins R&T setup, engineering and execution is light years better than other off the shelf stuff (PSS, H&R, etc)
Springs and shocks work well, if springing (pun intended) for coilovers, strongly consider the Ohlins R&T setup, engineering and execution is light years better than other off the shelf stuff (PSS, H&R, etc)
#27
but how ( and i know this is difficult to explain in a chat ) is it even possible for a 305/30/19 to run "better"?! ( then we need to define "better"? ) than a 295/30/18. that doesn't even appear to make much sense, to me.
but its all good. you know what ya like and all that matters. especially since the op will probably stay with 19's. but either way, its too early in the year ( even for me ) to "argue". next week? different story lol
#28
I've never run stock sizes except in front and like i said, its been so long! i cant recall what 19's sizes i ran. whatever it was it would've been with expert advice tho..
but how ( and i know this is difficult to explain in a chat ) is it even possible for a 305/30/19 to run "better"?! ( then we need to define "better"? ) than a 295/30/18. that doesn't even appear to make much sense, to me.
but its all good. you know what ya like and all that matters. especially since the op will probably stay with 19's. but either way, its too early in the year ( even for me ) to "argue". next week? different story lol
but how ( and i know this is difficult to explain in a chat ) is it even possible for a 305/30/19 to run "better"?! ( then we need to define "better"? ) than a 295/30/18. that doesn't even appear to make much sense, to me.
but its all good. you know what ya like and all that matters. especially since the op will probably stay with 19's. but either way, its too early in the year ( even for me ) to "argue". next week? different story lol
#30
OP, at minimum inspect and refresh bushings, I'd recommend solid LCA thrust arm bushings and LCA monoballs at rear. Toe-arms are not required until you go very(too) low (I do alignments)...nice to have but not required.
Springs and shocks work well, if springing (pun intended) for coilovers, strongly consider the Ohlins R&T setup, engineering and execution is light years better than other off the shelf stuff (PSS, H&R, etc)
Springs and shocks work well, if springing (pun intended) for coilovers, strongly consider the Ohlins R&T setup, engineering and execution is light years better than other off the shelf stuff (PSS, H&R, etc)
I would really like to stick with non adjustable shocks and springs unless someone wants to give me an AMAZING deal on coilovers
EDIT: I just got an estimate for PSS10, RSS adjustable rear link kit, adjustable rear toe steer kit, engine mounts.. $7k in parts and labor... any feedback on that cost for those who have gone a similar route?
Last edited by nicknaz; 01-02-2018 at 02:40 PM.