TT vs 370 hp Evo
#31
02-18-2006, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by Kinesis 996
U suck! That comment just made me think that my sti is slow to everyone's standard though i know all of you guys are driving 400+ hp cars. BLAH!!!! whatever hehe.
Evo's are quick cars, same with Sti's and can be extremely fast.. Ok let me break it down, whenever i drove even a nicely bolted on evo, it felt quick but didnt pull you like most other cars ive driven, it felt like s mall motor and boost tapered off, such a small power band in that car until you get into heavy modding opposed to the Sti which feels FAST and powerfull, especially with bolt ons, but once evo's have significant upgrades i do put my foot in my mouth, they are flat out insanely fast, most "highly" modded sti's i dont even feel that way, its weird
#33
02-20-2006, 01:00 PM
Originally Posted by Dabum
My buddy has a 04' STI with headers, gears, intake, full exhaust etc etc..
He says it'll do 0-60 in 4.1
He says it'll do 0-60 in 4.1
#34
02-20-2006, 03:25 PM
GPS traces - 996TT vs tuned Evo
ok, here we go. as promised, some GPS test data that compares straight line acceleration on a stock 996TT and a tuned Evo.
i apologize if the traces aren't very clear, but i just screen captured them off my PC, and then highlighted using PShop. i'm sure many here have had lots of experience with GPS datalogging, but for those who many not be familiar, the traces simply plot speed (measured in km/h) vs distance. so the steeper the upward slope of the line, the harder the acceleration.
the traces represented here are one lap at a local 4 km long track, with two relatively short straights (good for just under 120 mph). i've highlighted only the relevant sections of the lap.
the line to the first highlighted peak is acceleration along the main straight (the dotted verticle line represents the start/finish line, and corresponds to the checkered flag on the circuit map representation in the lower right). the second highlighted peak is the shorter straight just after the first turn.
the line in BLUE represents my tuned Evo. the line in RED is my 100% stock 996TT (manual).
the start of acceleration along the main straight is 3rd gear (final turn onto the straight is a 3rd gear 90 degree right hander) for both cars. you can clearly see that while the Evo accelerates as hard as the Porsche in this gear, once it shifts into 4th gear, its acceleration is not as fierce, as indicated by the shallower slope on the line. whereas the turbo maintains almost the same slope upon shifting into 4th.
the first turn is a 2nd gear hairpin. the evo maintains identical acceleration as the turbo in 2nd gear, and virtually the same in 3rd gear. but has to shift into 4th because of its much shorter gearing, where the Porsche gets by in 3rd (before the next braking point). again, upon shifting into 4th, you can clearly see how dramatically the evo's acceleration has tapered off.
i believe all the above serves to illustrate graphically what we all already knew: a moderately tuned evo is a match for a 996TT in the lower gears, but you'd need to massively tune the evo before it could keep pace with a Turbo on the highway.
incidentally, the Evo's laptime on this track is several seconds quicker than the Turbo, despite the Turbo getting higher terminal speeds at the end of the straights. the Evo absolutely kills the Turbo in the corners. but its probably not a fair comparison, since the Evo has coilovers, while the Turbo is on stock suspension.
For comparison's sake, a stock 997S got within a second of the Evo's time. As did a friend's stock 993 GT2. what was very odd was that while the 993 GT2 FELT faster than my turbo, the GPS traces tell a different story, with the 996TT actually being marginally more accelerative than the GT2.
My evo has only light engine mods, to take it to 300HP @ the wheels (dyno sheet available if anybody cares about that,) but is an Evo 5 and hence lighter than most US Evo's (which are Evo 8's technically).
i apologize if the traces aren't very clear, but i just screen captured them off my PC, and then highlighted using PShop. i'm sure many here have had lots of experience with GPS datalogging, but for those who many not be familiar, the traces simply plot speed (measured in km/h) vs distance. so the steeper the upward slope of the line, the harder the acceleration.
the traces represented here are one lap at a local 4 km long track, with two relatively short straights (good for just under 120 mph). i've highlighted only the relevant sections of the lap.
the line to the first highlighted peak is acceleration along the main straight (the dotted verticle line represents the start/finish line, and corresponds to the checkered flag on the circuit map representation in the lower right). the second highlighted peak is the shorter straight just after the first turn.
the line in BLUE represents my tuned Evo. the line in RED is my 100% stock 996TT (manual).
the start of acceleration along the main straight is 3rd gear (final turn onto the straight is a 3rd gear 90 degree right hander) for both cars. you can clearly see that while the Evo accelerates as hard as the Porsche in this gear, once it shifts into 4th gear, its acceleration is not as fierce, as indicated by the shallower slope on the line. whereas the turbo maintains almost the same slope upon shifting into 4th.
the first turn is a 2nd gear hairpin. the evo maintains identical acceleration as the turbo in 2nd gear, and virtually the same in 3rd gear. but has to shift into 4th because of its much shorter gearing, where the Porsche gets by in 3rd (before the next braking point). again, upon shifting into 4th, you can clearly see how dramatically the evo's acceleration has tapered off.
i believe all the above serves to illustrate graphically what we all already knew: a moderately tuned evo is a match for a 996TT in the lower gears, but you'd need to massively tune the evo before it could keep pace with a Turbo on the highway.
incidentally, the Evo's laptime on this track is several seconds quicker than the Turbo, despite the Turbo getting higher terminal speeds at the end of the straights. the Evo absolutely kills the Turbo in the corners. but its probably not a fair comparison, since the Evo has coilovers, while the Turbo is on stock suspension.
For comparison's sake, a stock 997S got within a second of the Evo's time. As did a friend's stock 993 GT2. what was very odd was that while the 993 GT2 FELT faster than my turbo, the GPS traces tell a different story, with the 996TT actually being marginally more accelerative than the GT2.
My evo has only light engine mods, to take it to 300HP @ the wheels (dyno sheet available if anybody cares about that,) but is an Evo 5 and hence lighter than most US Evo's (which are Evo 8's technically).
Last edited by hesperus; 02-20-2006 at 03:30 PM.
#35
02-20-2006, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by hesperus
ok, here we go. as promised, some GPS test data that compares straight line acceleration on a stock 996TT and a tuned Evo.
i apologize if the traces aren't very clear, but i just screen captured them off my PC, and then highlighted using PShop. i'm sure many here have had lots of experience with GPS datalogging, but for those who many not be familiar, the traces simply plot speed (measured in km/h) vs distance. so the steeper the upward slope of the line, the harder the acceleration.
the traces represented here are one lap at a local 4 km long track, with two relatively short straights (good for just under 120 mph). i've highlighted only the relevant sections of the lap.
the line to the first highlighted peak is acceleration along the main straight (the dotted verticle line represents the start/finish line, and corresponds to the checkered flag on the circuit map representation in the lower right). the second highlighted peak is the shorter straight just after the first turn.
the line in BLUE represents my tuned Evo. the line in RED is my 100% stock 996TT (manual).
the start of acceleration along the main straight is 3rd gear (final turn onto the straight is a 3rd gear 90 degree right hander) for both cars. you can clearly see that while the Evo accelerates as hard as the Porsche in this gear, once it shifts into 4th gear, its acceleration is not as fierce, as indicated by the shallower slope on the line. whereas the turbo maintains almost the same slope upon shifting into 4th.
the first turn is a 2nd gear hairpin. the evo maintains identical acceleration as the turbo in 2nd gear, and virtually the same in 3rd gear. but has to shift into 4th because of its much shorter gearing, where the Porsche gets by in 3rd (before the next braking point). again, upon shifting into 4th, you can clearly see how dramatically the evo's acceleration has tapered off.
i believe all the above serves to illustrate graphically what we all already knew: a moderately tuned evo is a match for a 996TT in the lower gears, but you'd need to massively tune the evo before it could keep pace with a Turbo on the highway.
incidentally, the Evo's laptime on this track is several seconds quicker than the Turbo, despite the Turbo getting higher terminal speeds at the end of the straights. the Evo absolutely kills the Turbo in the corners. but its probably not a fair comparison, since the Evo has coilovers, while the Turbo is on stock suspension.
For comparison's sake, a stock 997S got within a second of the Evo's time. As did a friend's stock 993 GT2. what was very odd was that while the 993 GT2 FELT faster than my turbo, the GPS traces tell a different story, with the 996TT actually being marginally more accelerative than the GT2.
My evo has only light engine mods, to take it to 300HP @ the wheels (dyno sheet available if anybody cares about that,) but is an Evo 5 and hence lighter than most US Evo's (which are Evo 8's technically).
i apologize if the traces aren't very clear, but i just screen captured them off my PC, and then highlighted using PShop. i'm sure many here have had lots of experience with GPS datalogging, but for those who many not be familiar, the traces simply plot speed (measured in km/h) vs distance. so the steeper the upward slope of the line, the harder the acceleration.
the traces represented here are one lap at a local 4 km long track, with two relatively short straights (good for just under 120 mph). i've highlighted only the relevant sections of the lap.
the line to the first highlighted peak is acceleration along the main straight (the dotted verticle line represents the start/finish line, and corresponds to the checkered flag on the circuit map representation in the lower right). the second highlighted peak is the shorter straight just after the first turn.
the line in BLUE represents my tuned Evo. the line in RED is my 100% stock 996TT (manual).
the start of acceleration along the main straight is 3rd gear (final turn onto the straight is a 3rd gear 90 degree right hander) for both cars. you can clearly see that while the Evo accelerates as hard as the Porsche in this gear, once it shifts into 4th gear, its acceleration is not as fierce, as indicated by the shallower slope on the line. whereas the turbo maintains almost the same slope upon shifting into 4th.
the first turn is a 2nd gear hairpin. the evo maintains identical acceleration as the turbo in 2nd gear, and virtually the same in 3rd gear. but has to shift into 4th because of its much shorter gearing, where the Porsche gets by in 3rd (before the next braking point). again, upon shifting into 4th, you can clearly see how dramatically the evo's acceleration has tapered off.
i believe all the above serves to illustrate graphically what we all already knew: a moderately tuned evo is a match for a 996TT in the lower gears, but you'd need to massively tune the evo before it could keep pace with a Turbo on the highway.
incidentally, the Evo's laptime on this track is several seconds quicker than the Turbo, despite the Turbo getting higher terminal speeds at the end of the straights. the Evo absolutely kills the Turbo in the corners. but its probably not a fair comparison, since the Evo has coilovers, while the Turbo is on stock suspension.
For comparison's sake, a stock 997S got within a second of the Evo's time. As did a friend's stock 993 GT2. what was very odd was that while the 993 GT2 FELT faster than my turbo, the GPS traces tell a different story, with the 996TT actually being marginally more accelerative than the GT2.
My evo has only light engine mods, to take it to 300HP @ the wheels (dyno sheet available if anybody cares about that,) but is an Evo 5 and hence lighter than most US Evo's (which are Evo 8's technically).
#36
02-20-2006, 08:40 PM
not to go OT, but the thread IS about Evo's versus Porsches!
here's a recent pic of myself (in the Evo) and a very good friend of mine (in the 993 GT2) on track. as you saw from the GPS traces i posted, the track lay-out is fairly twisty and technical, which plays to the Evo's strengths.
I'm always hesitant to look down on Evo's or STi's-- hell, even Civics for that matter-- as long as they are properly developed and for the right purpose. We all know that properly tuned Porsche, with enough money thrown at it, is a monster. It IS a monster right out of the box, for over 90% of people. Just that 6speeders are a demanding lot, hence the need for crazy modding.
It pisses me off obviously when I'm in the Turbo on the highway, or even in the E55, and some "ricer" sits on my tail wanting to race. That's silly, and I can't resist the temptation to blow him away. But my philosophy has always been THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB. Evo's can be utterly devastating as well. And so can Civics. On the type of tracks here where I live, the lap record is held by an Evo, followed by a Civic, with a GT2 in third place.
The GT2 pictured by the way, is an immaculate all original 993 GT2, with magnesium center-locking wheels sourced directly from Porsche Motorsport. He'd a bit crazy for tracking such a rare and precious piece of machinery, but that's what the car is for right? I was riding shotgun with him once when he lost it coming out of a 2nd gear corner. I was screaming at the top of my lungs, not because i feared for my life... but because i was thinking "oh ****! the car, the car!!!"
here's a recent pic of myself (in the Evo) and a very good friend of mine (in the 993 GT2) on track. as you saw from the GPS traces i posted, the track lay-out is fairly twisty and technical, which plays to the Evo's strengths.
I'm always hesitant to look down on Evo's or STi's-- hell, even Civics for that matter-- as long as they are properly developed and for the right purpose. We all know that properly tuned Porsche, with enough money thrown at it, is a monster. It IS a monster right out of the box, for over 90% of people. Just that 6speeders are a demanding lot, hence the need for crazy modding.
It pisses me off obviously when I'm in the Turbo on the highway, or even in the E55, and some "ricer" sits on my tail wanting to race. That's silly, and I can't resist the temptation to blow him away. But my philosophy has always been THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB. Evo's can be utterly devastating as well. And so can Civics. On the type of tracks here where I live, the lap record is held by an Evo, followed by a Civic, with a GT2 in third place.
The GT2 pictured by the way, is an immaculate all original 993 GT2, with magnesium center-locking wheels sourced directly from Porsche Motorsport. He'd a bit crazy for tracking such a rare and precious piece of machinery, but that's what the car is for right? I was riding shotgun with him once when he lost it coming out of a 2nd gear corner. I was screaming at the top of my lungs, not because i feared for my life... but because i was thinking "oh ****! the car, the car!!!"
#37
02-20-2006, 08:58 PM
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#38
02-20-2006, 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by Gramicci101
Hesperus, where do you live? A friend of mine had an Evo 5, but she lives in AUS.
#39
02-21-2006, 09:40 AM
Originally Posted by iLLM3
LOL well my past 2 cars were 500+ p, and even the turbo is over 500 torque, M3 was only 410 or so..
Evo's are quick cars, same with Sti's and can be extremely fast.. Ok let me break it down, whenever i drove even a nicely bolted on evo, it felt quick but didnt pull you like most other cars ive driven, it felt like s mall motor and boost tapered off, such a small power band in that car until you get into heavy modding opposed to the Sti which feels FAST and powerfull, especially with bolt ons, but once evo's have significant upgrades i do put my foot in my mouth, they are flat out insanely fast, most "highly" modded sti's i dont even feel that way, its weird
Evo's are quick cars, same with Sti's and can be extremely fast.. Ok let me break it down, whenever i drove even a nicely bolted on evo, it felt quick but didnt pull you like most other cars ive driven, it felt like s mall motor and boost tapered off, such a small power band in that car until you get into heavy modding opposed to the Sti which feels FAST and powerfull, especially with bolt ons, but once evo's have significant upgrades i do put my foot in my mouth, they are flat out insanely fast, most "highly" modded sti's i dont even feel that way, its weird
Seriously man i m just joking i don't even care anyways. There are too many fast cars in this word and i know how fast the 996 TT really is since i had driven my dad's one briefly.
However to answer your following question as to why a full out modded Evo is faster than a STi here is your ever quest answer haha.
The Evo's block is made out of iron therefore it can substain considerably more boost than the STi block which is made of aluminum. Due to the fact that it is made of aluminum, it cannot handle high psi like the evo does. However, because it is made of aluminum the overall design of the engine is actually lighter. With the boxer design, it also give the car a better balance in the coners as well. Though this design have its own adventage, but because the Evo have techno gadgets like AYC and ACD, it makes every driver seem like a pro.
Last edited by Kinesis 996; 02-21-2006 at 09:49 AM.
#40
02-21-2006, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by Kinesis 996
One day i m going to put in a custom turbo that is as big as a pair of Pamela Anderson's ******* COMBINED!! lol lol
Seriously man i m just joking i don't even care anyways. There are too many fast cars in this word and i know how fast the 996 TT really is since i had driven my dad's one briefly.
However to answer your following question as to why a full out modded Evo is faster than a STi here is your ever quest answer haha.
The Evo's block is made out of iron therefore it can substain considerably more boost than the STi block which is made of aluminum. Due to the fact that it is made of aluminum, it cannot handle high psi like the evo does. However, because it is made of aluminum the overall design of the engine is actually lighter. With the boxer design, it also give the car a better balance in the coners as well. Though this design have its own adventage, but because the Evo have techno gadgets like AYC and ACD, it makes every driver seem like a pro.
Seriously man i m just joking i don't even care anyways. There are too many fast cars in this word and i know how fast the 996 TT really is since i had driven my dad's one briefly.
However to answer your following question as to why a full out modded Evo is faster than a STi here is your ever quest answer haha.
The Evo's block is made out of iron therefore it can substain considerably more boost than the STi block which is made of aluminum. Due to the fact that it is made of aluminum, it cannot handle high psi like the evo does. However, because it is made of aluminum the overall design of the engine is actually lighter. With the boxer design, it also give the car a better balance in the coners as well. Though this design have its own adventage, but because the Evo have techno gadgets like AYC and ACD, it makes every driver seem like a pro.
But anyway like i said on any car board, im friends and an enthusiast of Sti's, Evo's and their owners.. Ive always wanted one, but was just fortunate to own the cars i have, but eventually i will have an evo track car or maybe a subie, they deserve alot of respect and they def. have it from me when put to good use! Not kids racing around the streets at every stoplight
#41
02-21-2006, 11:17 AM
If I had the play money I'd like an EVO. However I suggest anyone racing
one on the track consider an Accusump, or other oil pressure system. A
friend of mine and fellow racer just blew an Evo up at Laguna Seca. The
teardown showed oil starvation to a lower rod bearing. He surmises that
the long periods of lateral Gs may not be good for the wet-sump Evo.
He's going to rebuild, and get an Accusump. He was just saying he'd
broken the 2-minute mark at Laguna, and I had quipped that even though
the car was just an Evo, he should be able to last much longer than that.
hahahah I crack myself up
Joe
one on the track consider an Accusump, or other oil pressure system. A
friend of mine and fellow racer just blew an Evo up at Laguna Seca. The
teardown showed oil starvation to a lower rod bearing. He surmises that
the long periods of lateral Gs may not be good for the wet-sump Evo.
He's going to rebuild, and get an Accusump. He was just saying he'd
broken the 2-minute mark at Laguna, and I had quipped that even though
the car was just an Evo, he should be able to last much longer than that.
hahahah I crack myself up
Joe
#42
02-21-2006, 12:02 PM
More pics of that magnificent 993GT2 please.
Originally Posted by hesperus
not to go OT, but the thread IS about Evo's versus Porsches!
here's a recent pic of myself (in the Evo) and a very good friend of mine (in the 993 GT2) on track. as you saw from the GPS traces i posted, the track lay-out is fairly twisty and technical, which plays to the Evo's strengths.
I'm always hesitant to look down on Evo's or STi's-- hell, even Civics for that matter-- as long as they are properly developed and for the right purpose. We all know that properly tuned Porsche, with enough money thrown at it, is a monster. It IS a monster right out of the box, for over 90% of people. Just that 6speeders are a demanding lot, hence the need for crazy modding.
It pisses me off obviously when I'm in the Turbo on the highway, or even in the E55, and some "ricer" sits on my tail wanting to race. That's silly, and I can't resist the temptation to blow him away. But my philosophy has always been THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB. Evo's can be utterly devastating as well. And so can Civics. On the type of tracks here where I live, the lap record is held by an Evo, followed by a Civic, with a GT2 in third place.
The GT2 pictured by the way, is an immaculate all original 993 GT2, with magnesium center-locking wheels sourced directly from Porsche Motorsport. He'd a bit crazy for tracking such a rare and precious piece of machinery, but that's what the car is for right? I was riding shotgun with him once when he lost it coming out of a 2nd gear corner. I was screaming at the top of my lungs, not because i feared for my life... but because i was thinking "oh ****! the car, the car!!!"
here's a recent pic of myself (in the Evo) and a very good friend of mine (in the 993 GT2) on track. as you saw from the GPS traces i posted, the track lay-out is fairly twisty and technical, which plays to the Evo's strengths.
I'm always hesitant to look down on Evo's or STi's-- hell, even Civics for that matter-- as long as they are properly developed and for the right purpose. We all know that properly tuned Porsche, with enough money thrown at it, is a monster. It IS a monster right out of the box, for over 90% of people. Just that 6speeders are a demanding lot, hence the need for crazy modding.
It pisses me off obviously when I'm in the Turbo on the highway, or even in the E55, and some "ricer" sits on my tail wanting to race. That's silly, and I can't resist the temptation to blow him away. But my philosophy has always been THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB. Evo's can be utterly devastating as well. And so can Civics. On the type of tracks here where I live, the lap record is held by an Evo, followed by a Civic, with a GT2 in third place.
The GT2 pictured by the way, is an immaculate all original 993 GT2, with magnesium center-locking wheels sourced directly from Porsche Motorsport. He'd a bit crazy for tracking such a rare and precious piece of machinery, but that's what the car is for right? I was riding shotgun with him once when he lost it coming out of a 2nd gear corner. I was screaming at the top of my lungs, not because i feared for my life... but because i was thinking "oh ****! the car, the car!!!"