Chad,
I am not defending anyone here...Where are all the RUF owners? I am pretty sure you pay for lodging of the tech from Germany for installing the engine kits. Dont know if you do so as well for warranty work. Besides, with the GIAC IBE on an X50, there is no reason I woule need an aftermarket warranty since when i take my car to the dealer and put the ECU in stock mode, other than my exhaust, filter and DVs all engine and turbo parts are stock...
Another point to note with RUF is that I bought my pedals directly from Germany (not sure if this applies to Weissach) and I am pretty sure there pricing is based on Euros and so with today's US dollar the RUF stuff becomes even more expensive.
I have nothing against RUF....I am simply a very satisfied Imagine Auto customer and wanted to share wht I know.

 

If you want excellent support and a long term reliable relationship deal with EVO. I recently purchased some product from Todd at EVO and he went the extra mile to make sure that I was completely satisfied with the shop that is doing the work. It really depends on who you are comfortable dealing with. Personally I enjoy dealing and talking with Todd.

 

Yes you do pay extra for the lodging and travel for the RUF technician.

The warranty is not the issue to me, as it's reasonably clear that if there was an problem with a part or installation these guys understand the value of fixing it vs. getting blasted on this forum or elsewhere. And I'm sure RUF's warranty is not a license to beat the hell out of your car for the 1st year, expecting they will fix everything for free.

I know a couple of guys in Dallas with RUF's and they have been mechanically bulletproof with no problems whatsoever, and these guys do beat the hell out of their cars on the track and elsewhere (unfortunatley one was recently totalled).

So is the EVO Stage 4/5 as reliable as RUF? Would like to hear any problems, as well as how many miles on the car since the conversion. If anyone has had major problems with a RUF car, or issues waiting for parts from Germany, etc. please state.

 

The customer pays for tech lodging on the initial installation ONLY. Warranty work is completely covered...

I think John D can weigh in on this...he had a small problem with his ruf suspension and a tech (joe) came to his house and fixed it under warranty. Now that's what I call customer service...

The idea of a tech coming over to the US each time there is a problem (a rare occurence from what I gather), is also a fallacy. The fact is, the techs are usually stateside doing numerous installs and a small diversion is all that is required to diagnose and fix warranty work when required.

Is Ruf conversion more expensive ? In the short term, yes...but I think the car is also worth more on resale than a comparably prepped alternative so this may be a moot point, and this comes down to reputation. A caddy and a honda can both get me to my destination, doesn't mean I will neccesarily buy the honda because it is cheaper, it just comes down to personal preference and choice. Thats why we drive Porsches right ?

 

Ill chip in here, this is where i stand on my feelings on RUF:

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30489

There is a reason RUF is famous internationally- very strong principals, cars that perform, and built quality that would shame a tank. Also the feeling that you have really joined a collective "family"

all the best
adam

 

What is the approx price difference on a stage 4 550-600 HP conversion using hybrid (K16-K24) turbos?

 

RUF is overpriced for what it essentially is...Some high flowing K24 turbos, air intake, exhaust, K&N type filter, etc....
You can get all this stuff for a lot less from EVO or Imagine Auto...Just look at the link to the AWE dyno day. Why would you pay more for the same performance since you just said you probably will not use the warranty?? It is almost like 'designer' clothes where higher prices are sometimes just for the 'name/brand' and not quality of the product.
Again, I have nothing against RUF but for me price does matter and I feel that IA/EVO packages are better value for the (ever declining ) dollar

 

My thoughts...and they are largely similar to RufMD's...yes the upfront cost is greater, but I think that the overall cost of ownership is probably about the same (greater resale value). So really, it comes down to what you are looking for and your priorities. I believe that Ruf spends more resources on fully developing their systems before they release them for sale to the public. I also absolutely love the combination of performance and driveability that the Ruf 550 Rturbo package has. It is amazingly seamless and linear. In the end that was more important to me than having over 600HP. I have not driven any GIAC/EVO/IA setups but from what I hear they have very good driveability as well. I am lucky also that Weissach Performance is only a couple hour drive from me in Seattle.

I guess in the end the Ruf package is, in my estimation, the closest thing to how Porsche would have done it if they would build us a 600 HP 996tt.

 

I really do consider who to go with is a reasonably close call. I have nothing against Ruf either, in fact I think they are quite good. To be honest, I want to support the GIAC crew because of the excellent work they are doing, especially from a value standpoint.

 

msindi, you stated above:

"RUF is overpriced for what it essentially is...Some high flowing K24 turbos, air intake, exhaust, K&N type filter, etc.... "

Let's dispense with hear say, post the two dyno's. Compare the area under the curves (average hp/torque) for each rpm range in 100 rpm increaments. The better performing product would be obvious to a blind man. Why does everyone want to dance around this subject?: confused: Sorry but up to this point, this post reminds me of the tale about the king with no clothe's on. Everyone is posturing with no back up. Heck, I couldn't tell you based on the above who has the better package.

I challenge anyone to provide torque/hp from 2300 thru 6800 at one rpm intervals, SAE rev 1990 conversion and same model dyno. Until then we can gumb this forever.

 

Nice pissing match boys... this is the kind of crap that turns these forums upside down.

Plain and simple it's a matter of what makes a person happy. Their are pleny of tuners to choose from with different price ranges that give great results.

No need to sling mud on tuners or fellow forum members. We are just looking for good advice, right?

We're all after big horsepower here. So let the dyno results and engine longevity speak for themselves.

 

Chad - have you seen the AWE dyno thread?? (I posted link earlier)....The curves of IA600 and Ruf 550 are almost overlapping!!

 

Msindi,

to recap your mods,

"Mods: RUF aluminium pedals, B&M short shift, K&N air filter, Bailey DVs, Painted bumperettes and lower rear bumper, Silver vision bulbs front and rear, blue vision side markers, PIAA fogs, Autobahnd Roadblock paint protection, tinted windows, Das Schild hood liner, HRE 542R 19" wheels, Brembo 8-piston 15" fronts and 4-piston 14" rears, Bilstein PSS-9 adjustable coilovers, H&R swaybars front and rear, Techart floor mats with "turbo" script, matching Techart trunk mat, Fabspeed Super Sport Exhaust, GIAC ECU with IBE Chipwitch: Stock, Level IA600 (93 octane, 600HP) and level IA600R (100 octane, 640HP), Electrical Sports seats, Techart rear intake splitters, Techart spare tire delete kit, Strosek roof spoiler, (more to come)"

I bet that is not far off from what I paid for my Ruf conversion to current 550hp specs including instruments, suspension, exhaust, wheels, conti tires, short shifter and taller 6th gear good for 219 mph...

Hardly think cost is as big a difference as you think it is in the end...

I bet you have 40+k invested in your car right ?

 

I was thinking that msindi's signature was a bit much myself....

and what's with the ruf pedals?

 

MSindi at the end of the day you went another route to get what you see as a great package, others went another way, dont try and detract from others good feelings about RUF.

Generally speaking RUF brings a whole package, susp, exhaust, gears, engine, styling etc etc

You have taken a different route with more manufactures, which is great, you get what you want, but the thing i like about RUF is they can cater for everything-

as rufinit said lets not turn this into a pissing match because at the end of the day its indisputably obviouos that both setups are great

all the best
adam