What cars, overall...are really better than the Porsche Turbos?
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What cars, overall...are really better than the Porsche Turbos?
I was replying to a question on another forum, and as I thought about my answer...the more surprised I became at how great these cars really are.
After owning and driving a number of sports cars over the years (not as many as Alex, of course
), I've decided that what's important to me is:
-Easy moddability (ability to make it *very* fast)
-Overall performance (acceleration, braking, and handling)
-Relatively light weight
-Lots of torque
-FI
-Driveability (ability to drive it daily and in comfort)
-Ability to put it's power to ground effectively (very important)
-Safety (solid structure, up-to-date safety technology)
-Comes with a manual transmission (just my personal preference)
-Long-term build quality
-Looks (very subjective)
Some other cars I came up with were:
-FI BMW's. Great cars. But difficult to put power down to the ground effectively , and the S/C'd cars are low on torque. The Turbos cars that are coming out sound promising...but again, power to the ground will be difficult.
-Z06. But it's not FI (which I prefer), is not easy to get its power to the ground effectively, and long-term build quality is suspect (I love the car, though).
-Supras and Skylines come to mind. But Supras have a very hard time putting their power to the ground effectively on the street, and you can't get Skylines in the states without a ton of hassles.
-Lambos simply aren't fast enough for me. Even the Heffner TT Gallardo only runs 11.4 @ 129.
-EVO's and STI's can also get HUGE power...but require complete engine rebuilds to do it and you need a ton of boost. As much as I respect those cars...long-term build quality for all of them also isn't comparable to the Porsche. Love their perfomance, but really dislike their looks (no offense, Markski).
-Cobras and Shelby GT500's use large displacement, are heavy, don't use IRS, and build quality is not comparable. Also difficult to put power to the ground effectively.
-Ferrari. Awesome. But not very moddable for big power. Main reason why I prefer FI.
-Ford GT can also put down monster power with the stock blower and motor....but it's displacement is huge and it's has a very hard time getting traction on the street. Awesome sports car, though. Would love to have one in my garage.
-Mercedes. Moddable, but heavy. Don't handle or brake nearly as well, and only come with automatic transmissions. And even the fastest ones aren't all that fast (high 10's at low 130's).
As I sit here and think about it....I really can't think of another car that provides the same power, driveability, build quality, ability to put power to the ground effectively, braking, handling, and ease of modification....as a modified Porsche TT (other than the Veyron...but it's heavy as hell). The CCX would be a good one, but way out of my price range.
The 2008 Nissan GTR looks very promising, though. It should handle well, brake well, be able to put it's power to the ground effectively, have great technology....and most importantly...come with a 3.5L TT V-6 that should be very moddable. I look forward to this car's release.
Of course, a lot of this is subjective. No offense meant to the owners of any of the above-named cars.
Thoughts, *****es, compliants?
After owning and driving a number of sports cars over the years (not as many as Alex, of course
), I've decided that what's important to me is:-Easy moddability (ability to make it *very* fast)
-Overall performance (acceleration, braking, and handling)
-Relatively light weight
-Lots of torque
-FI
-Driveability (ability to drive it daily and in comfort)
-Ability to put it's power to ground effectively (very important)
-Safety (solid structure, up-to-date safety technology)
-Comes with a manual transmission (just my personal preference)
-Long-term build quality
-Looks (very subjective)
Some other cars I came up with were:
-FI BMW's. Great cars. But difficult to put power down to the ground effectively , and the S/C'd cars are low on torque. The Turbos cars that are coming out sound promising...but again, power to the ground will be difficult.
-Z06. But it's not FI (which I prefer), is not easy to get its power to the ground effectively, and long-term build quality is suspect (I love the car, though).
-Supras and Skylines come to mind. But Supras have a very hard time putting their power to the ground effectively on the street, and you can't get Skylines in the states without a ton of hassles.
-Lambos simply aren't fast enough for me. Even the Heffner TT Gallardo only runs 11.4 @ 129.
-EVO's and STI's can also get HUGE power...but require complete engine rebuilds to do it and you need a ton of boost. As much as I respect those cars...long-term build quality for all of them also isn't comparable to the Porsche. Love their perfomance, but really dislike their looks (no offense, Markski).
-Cobras and Shelby GT500's use large displacement, are heavy, don't use IRS, and build quality is not comparable. Also difficult to put power to the ground effectively.
-Ferrari. Awesome. But not very moddable for big power. Main reason why I prefer FI.
-Ford GT can also put down monster power with the stock blower and motor....but it's displacement is huge and it's has a very hard time getting traction on the street. Awesome sports car, though. Would love to have one in my garage.
-Mercedes. Moddable, but heavy. Don't handle or brake nearly as well, and only come with automatic transmissions. And even the fastest ones aren't all that fast (high 10's at low 130's).
As I sit here and think about it....I really can't think of another car that provides the same power, driveability, build quality, ability to put power to the ground effectively, braking, handling, and ease of modification....as a modified Porsche TT (other than the Veyron...but it's heavy as hell). The CCX would be a good one, but way out of my price range.
The 2008 Nissan GTR looks very promising, though. It should handle well, brake well, be able to put it's power to the ground effectively, have great technology....and most importantly...come with a 3.5L TT V-6 that should be very moddable. I look forward to this car's release.
Of course, a lot of this is subjective. No offense meant to the owners of any of the above-named cars.
Thoughts, *****es, compliants?
Last edited by Divexxtreme; Dec 23, 2006 at 09:58 AM.
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Very well put, Scott.
I think the GT-R will be hot, but I just hope it isn't ugly. I hate when cars are overstyled. Previous GT-Rs were chunky and full of vents/wings/ducts for functionality (like an Evo). This one looks like it will be styled for styling's sake.
I completely agree about modability and potential. There is no doubt that the big JDM tuners had a lot of input to Nissan to make this engine bulletproof like the RB. I am very interested to see how it turns out...
I think the GT-R will be hot, but I just hope it isn't ugly. I hate when cars are overstyled. Previous GT-Rs were chunky and full of vents/wings/ducts for functionality (like an Evo). This one looks like it will be styled for styling's sake.
I completely agree about modability and potential. There is no doubt that the big JDM tuners had a lot of input to Nissan to make this engine bulletproof like the RB. I am very interested to see how it turns out...
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Gotta throw the VQ 3.5 in there (350Z and G35). Great cars. However, to put big power down you have to build the engine (rods are crap/pencil thin on an otherwise excellent motor).
Thus, by the time you get a VQ based car in the performance realm of the Porsche TT, you have spent Porsche money....might as well go for the "true" sports car.
Of course this is not to say that I don't love my G35. For a very sporty/luxurious car the price is right (I had to spend 7 K however for an extra 50 hp) and it is a great DD.
I think that the STI's and EVO's are the best performance bang for the buck if you can get over the fugly part.
Thus, by the time you get a VQ based car in the performance realm of the Porsche TT, you have spent Porsche money....might as well go for the "true" sports car.
Of course this is not to say that I don't love my G35. For a very sporty/luxurious car the price is right (I had to spend 7 K however for an extra 50 hp) and it is a great DD.
I think that the STI's and EVO's are the best performance bang for the buck if you can get over the fugly part.
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu
Gotta throw the VQ 3.5 in there (350Z and G35). Great cars. However, to put big power down you have to build the engine (rods are crap/pencil thin on an otherwise excellent motor).
Thus, by the time you get a VQ based car in the performance realm of the Porsche TT, you have spent Porsche money....might as well go for the "true" sports car.
Of course this is not to say that I don't love my G35. For a very sporty/luxurious car the price is right (I had to spend 7 K however for an extra 50 hp) and it is a great DD.
Thus, by the time you get a VQ based car in the performance realm of the Porsche TT, you have spent Porsche money....might as well go for the "true" sports car.
Of course this is not to say that I don't love my G35. For a very sporty/luxurious car the price is right (I had to spend 7 K however for an extra 50 hp) and it is a great DD.
I love the G35...but have "diffferent" feelings about the 350Z.
I think that the STI's and EVO's are the best performance bang for the buck if you can get over the fugly part.
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Scott, there is no other car that can take the place of the turbo, it's very
unique, does everthing well! We can always buy an EVO/STI for the everyday
beating & mod it to hell for pennies compared to the Porsche! ala MARKSKI!
unique, does everthing well! We can always buy an EVO/STI for the everyday
beating & mod it to hell for pennies compared to the Porsche! ala MARKSKI!
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you just said it all right there man! and to reiterate what christian said, "there is no substitute"!
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I agree for the most part on everything you have said. I drive a Audi S4 Avant as my daily and since you mentioned some 4 door models I would include this car on the list. Reasons are as follows...
1: twin turbo V6... I upgraded mine with the RS4 KO4 turbos and dynoed at 434 WHP on 100 octane. On 93 I expect around 405-415WHP
2: 4 Wheel drive...
3. Moddability... there are a TON of stuff available for the Audi B5 platform.
4.Comes in Manual.. Mine is a 6speed
5. Braking and handling are not an issue since there are brake upgrades and suspension upgrades a plenty.
6. Build quality is very nice... German made!
Since going STG3+ on my S4 I have been very impressed with the platform. I often tell people it is like my 996TT except in a wagon form. FWIW I dynoed 434 WHP on 93OCT in my 996TT on the same model Dyno that I ran my S4 on. Granted these numbers were recieved using different fuel and torque is obviously different but power wise and speed i would put the B5 S4 platform on the list of cars that should be mentioned.
OK... I'm off my soap box now
1: twin turbo V6... I upgraded mine with the RS4 KO4 turbos and dynoed at 434 WHP on 100 octane. On 93 I expect around 405-415WHP
2: 4 Wheel drive...
3. Moddability... there are a TON of stuff available for the Audi B5 platform.
4.Comes in Manual.. Mine is a 6speed
5. Braking and handling are not an issue since there are brake upgrades and suspension upgrades a plenty.
6. Build quality is very nice... German made!
Since going STG3+ on my S4 I have been very impressed with the platform. I often tell people it is like my 996TT except in a wagon form. FWIW I dynoed 434 WHP on 93OCT in my 996TT on the same model Dyno that I ran my S4 on. Granted these numbers were recieved using different fuel and torque is obviously different but power wise and speed i would put the B5 S4 platform on the list of cars that should be mentioned.
OK... I'm off my soap box now
Last edited by str8blst; Dec 23, 2006 at 11:09 AM.
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few things.. as owning both a turbo and a skyline. I must say out of the box the turbo is faster... but once u spend money on modding.. For the price of a turbo exhuast i can add over 100hp to the GT-R
Also the new GT-R is coming out as a 3.8l tt. with an all wheel drive system of that of the new Turbo. It was designed with one goal in mind. Beat the porsche at all costs. And rumor has it that they did just that. But also there is a rumor its not running a manual gear box but some crazy sequential thing...
.. wont know till 2 weeks from today when i get to test drive her... HEHEHEHE...
But yeah i must say.. The GT-R and the Turbo are my to personal choices. But still it does cost lots to make most of the cars not american and japanese faster
Also the new GT-R is coming out as a 3.8l tt. with an all wheel drive system of that of the new Turbo. It was designed with one goal in mind. Beat the porsche at all costs. And rumor has it that they did just that. But also there is a rumor its not running a manual gear box but some crazy sequential thing...
.. wont know till 2 weeks from today when i get to test drive her... HEHEHEHE...But yeah i must say.. The GT-R and the Turbo are my to personal choices. But still it does cost lots to make most of the cars not american and japanese faster
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hey Alan,
OT....I guess GSP's training w/ Renzo really paid of. WOW what a perfromance.
Back on topic, yes, I would love to have an RS4 as a daily driver/super-family mobile.
Finally, I am drooling over the thought of the new GTR, although I doubt it will rival my GT2. Of course I could get a similarly modded GTR for half the price.
OT....I guess GSP's training w/ Renzo really paid of. WOW what a perfromance.
Back on topic, yes, I would love to have an RS4 as a daily driver/super-family mobile.
Finally, I am drooling over the thought of the new GTR, although I doubt it will rival my GT2. Of course I could get a similarly modded GTR for half the price.
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Originally Posted by Dr_jitsu
hey Alan,
OT....I guess GSP's training w/ Renzo really paid of. WOW what a perfromance.
Back on topic, yes, I would love to have an RS4 as a daily driver/super-family mobile.
Finally, I am drooling over the thought of the new GTR, although I doubt it will rival my GT2. Of course I could get a similarly modded GTR for half the price.
OT....I guess GSP's training w/ Renzo really paid of. WOW what a perfromance.
Back on topic, yes, I would love to have an RS4 as a daily driver/super-family mobile.
Finally, I am drooling over the thought of the new GTR, although I doubt it will rival my GT2. Of course I could get a similarly modded GTR for half the price.
RS4 is a great car but it is NA and the modd potential is certainly not as high as a FI car. The thing I love about my Avant is that I can fold down the back seats and put stuff in it like a SUV. I also love the looks on people's faces when I blow by them in a Wagon!
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My thoughts are the best sportscar available is a Porsche turbo. I currently have an 996TT and a '07 Z06. The overall performance of the Z06 is superior, but the TT is a much better sportscar. The driving position, the handling, the looks, the reliability are 2nd to none.
Scott, no offense taken...
I never thought I would find myself in a evo... LOL
but honestly, being an owner of a street car I drive everyday that can run low 10.s at the track... you cant beat it...
modding the brakes and suspension is easy and not as expensive as a bmw and or P car...
It actually can hang with a P car at road courses.... stock...
for $2500 u have 400 awd HP...
ist cheap to do the motor... heads are $2000 and lower end is $3500 with parts... u can put on any combo of turbo kits... depending on ur driving needs... u can run a stand alone.... $1800...
what else do u need to know?
just my opinion guys... Im sure there are many other options better then this car..
markski
I never thought I would find myself in a evo... LOL
but honestly, being an owner of a street car I drive everyday that can run low 10.s at the track... you cant beat it...
modding the brakes and suspension is easy and not as expensive as a bmw and or P car...
It actually can hang with a P car at road courses.... stock...
for $2500 u have 400 awd HP...
ist cheap to do the motor... heads are $2000 and lower end is $3500 with parts... u can put on any combo of turbo kits... depending on ur driving needs... u can run a stand alone.... $1800...
what else do u need to know?
just my opinion guys... Im sure there are many other options better then this car..
markski
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2001 996TT 3.6L and stock ECU
9.66 seconds @ 147.76 mph 1/4 mile click to view
160 mph @ 9.77 seconds in 1/4 mile click to view
50% OFF ON PORSCHE ECU TUNING BLACK FRIDAY SPECIAL
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Scott very well done and stated...the Porsche has everything going for it, my next choice would always be late 1990's Supra, EVO , Viper, Z06, GT40 (in no specific order)as you state all of them can develop real HP..the MB, Lambo and F-Car are not made for that stuff, although the stock AMG 65 series motor does put out an awful lot of TQ..
Last edited by Marc; Dec 29, 2006 at 12:18 PM.