Blown in the TT world ... '04 X50
#16
03-23-2007, 10:32 PM
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area / Switzerland
Posts: 308
Rep Power: 34 
Finally took the X50 out for its first track day, Laguna Seca with Nasa on 03/21. First time in Laguna Seca and first track day with a 996TT. Very pleased overall with this first opportunity to really see how the package delivers.
The Porsche OEM SSK is as good a surprise on the track as much as it tends to be a pain on the road, becoming a good ally, especially as the lack of low end grunt requires to work on the gears to pass turn 11 and 2 in 2nd. Lag requires adjustment too, it is sometimes delicate to open up the torque tap at the right moment, too soon and the front will wash out wide, too late and you find yourself waiting while tracking out.
I found PSM to be amazingly misjudged. I had encountered a couple of anomalies on the road with strange interventions in pretty mellow conditions, but on a track it was borderline dangerous, especially in turn 9 where the negative camber and bumps send the poor thing into sheer panic. Well judged traction control or stability mgt generally remind you if jerky driving, but here it's simply way too conservative and very disruptive to the balance of the car. Ended up switching it off and things got a lot smoother as a result. In the dry, the car is very healthy anyway, I am not sure that PSM would save you from yourself anyhow.
Weight very perceivable, but the weight balance was much more to my taste than on the 996C2, with a lot less track out understeer in spite of mucha higha torqua. Will be interesting to see how the car does at Infineon in this regard.
The PS2s did reasonably well, but don't do the car justice in terms of cornering speed vs straightline urge. I did experience rumbly brake fade at the end of the afternoon sessions as the pace increased, and this in spite of a rather conservative approach to the real hot spot of Laguna (at least to me), the approach of turn 2. The car got really light and unstable when passing the crest at turn 1. That's the breaking point where the skilled and daring must be making a huge difference.
Oh, and what a guzzler ! I measured 6.85mpg (34.3 L/100km), which beats my previous "record" of 30.7 with my 550 on the Nordschleife. Autonomy becomes really ridiculous as a result.
That leaves me puzzled as to what mods, if any, would make the car more homogenous. I'd for sure appreciate less lag, but I can't see the car making sense with just more power. Damping did not bother me that much once PSM was off and ceased disrupting the car's balance, so PSS9s don't seem to be a top priority. Perhaps testing it is enlightening. A 2nd set of wheels with track rubber would make sense, but I can only see that making brake fade a more obvious issue.
Joe - comparing the TT X50 with a 550 is really hard. In terms of sense of occasion and supercar factor, the 550 is leagues away from what remains a nice Porsche 911. A 550 makes every mile special, I don't get the same feel shlepping around in traffic in the TT. In terms of sheer all around performance, the X50 is a better package. Lighter, better brakes, ballistic torque in spite of flawed delivery, there's no way you can dig into the performance envelope of a 550 as you can with a stock 996TT, at least not as long before tires and brakes surrender. Same thing in every day usability, in spite of the 550s amazing dispositions, the 996 remains way easier to live with as a daily driver, fuel autonomy and luggage space aside.
Yet, a 550 can offer absolutely memorable moments, the kind of experience that does not necessarily translate into lap times or practicality.
The Porsche OEM SSK is as good a surprise on the track as much as it tends to be a pain on the road, becoming a good ally, especially as the lack of low end grunt requires to work on the gears to pass turn 11 and 2 in 2nd. Lag requires adjustment too, it is sometimes delicate to open up the torque tap at the right moment, too soon and the front will wash out wide, too late and you find yourself waiting while tracking out.
I found PSM to be amazingly misjudged. I had encountered a couple of anomalies on the road with strange interventions in pretty mellow conditions, but on a track it was borderline dangerous, especially in turn 9 where the negative camber and bumps send the poor thing into sheer panic. Well judged traction control or stability mgt generally remind you if jerky driving, but here it's simply way too conservative and very disruptive to the balance of the car. Ended up switching it off and things got a lot smoother as a result. In the dry, the car is very healthy anyway, I am not sure that PSM would save you from yourself anyhow.
Weight very perceivable, but the weight balance was much more to my taste than on the 996C2, with a lot less track out understeer in spite of mucha higha torqua. Will be interesting to see how the car does at Infineon in this regard.
The PS2s did reasonably well, but don't do the car justice in terms of cornering speed vs straightline urge. I did experience rumbly brake fade at the end of the afternoon sessions as the pace increased, and this in spite of a rather conservative approach to the real hot spot of Laguna (at least to me), the approach of turn 2. The car got really light and unstable when passing the crest at turn 1. That's the breaking point where the skilled and daring must be making a huge difference.
Oh, and what a guzzler ! I measured 6.85mpg (34.3 L/100km), which beats my previous "record" of 30.7 with my 550 on the Nordschleife. Autonomy becomes really ridiculous as a result.
That leaves me puzzled as to what mods, if any, would make the car more homogenous. I'd for sure appreciate less lag, but I can't see the car making sense with just more power. Damping did not bother me that much once PSM was off and ceased disrupting the car's balance, so PSS9s don't seem to be a top priority. Perhaps testing it is enlightening. A 2nd set of wheels with track rubber would make sense, but I can only see that making brake fade a more obvious issue.
Joe - comparing the TT X50 with a 550 is really hard. In terms of sense of occasion and supercar factor, the 550 is leagues away from what remains a nice Porsche 911. A 550 makes every mile special, I don't get the same feel shlepping around in traffic in the TT. In terms of sheer all around performance, the X50 is a better package. Lighter, better brakes, ballistic torque in spite of flawed delivery, there's no way you can dig into the performance envelope of a 550 as you can with a stock 996TT, at least not as long before tires and brakes surrender. Same thing in every day usability, in spite of the 550s amazing dispositions, the 996 remains way easier to live with as a daily driver, fuel autonomy and luggage space aside.
Yet, a 550 can offer absolutely memorable moments, the kind of experience that does not necessarily translate into lap times or practicality.
Last edited by ze_shark; 03-24-2007 at 12:31 AM.
#19
03-23-2007, 11:01 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 6,379
Rep Power: 344 
Originally Posted by ze_shark
Thanks ! Going to take the time to learn the car. First track days are likely to put PSS9s on top of the priority list, although I know it be a compromise with ground clearance on ramps. The thing feels so ballistic by now that a GIAC upgrade would not make sense yet, I probably could not tell the difference between woaa and woaaaa.
The X73 and sport cups are night and day compared to the stock dumbed down suspension and street tires. Far superior to the pss9's on the track imo.
Last edited by TT Surgeon; 03-23-2007 at 11:04 PM.
#20
03-24-2007, 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by iLLM3
Absolutely gorgeous car, great purchase for the X50 and color!! Big congrats 
Wait until you start doing little things with big bang for performance and driver satisfaction (Coilovers, ECU/Exhaust/DV's/Filter or Vflow, Short Shift Kit) and so on! The car only gets better from here, and is reliable as all hell.
Goodluck
Wait until you start doing little things with big bang for performance and driver satisfaction (Coilovers, ECU/Exhaust/DV's/Filter or Vflow, Short Shift Kit) and so on! The car only gets better from here, and is reliable as all hell.
Goodluck
Forgot to add, that color is brilliant!
Last edited by 996TTDave; 03-24-2007 at 01:23 AM.
#21
03-24-2007, 01:19 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Francisco / DXB
Posts: 972
Rep Power: 67
I came from a K24 + GIAC Flash + EP II Loud ... and I definately tell you from personal experience... and just my humble opinion... that K24 lag is horrible even after the flash! I suggest upgrading to turbo kits such as a the UMW Zero Clearance or EVOMS GTxxx.
#25
06-04-2007, 08:53 PM
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area / Switzerland
Posts: 308
Rep Power: 34
After a couple of track days with the thing and a few thousand miles on the road, I have now a bit more perspective on which mods I'd like to prioritize. Tough call.
Top priorities:
- seats: I have standard comfort seats with lumbar adjustment, and lateral support is way insufficient for track use, I need sports seats as a compromise between every day usability and track time
- lag: the on/off nature of the X50 is a handicap on street and track, a costly mod (exhaust + flash). Thing is, I am just not convinced yet that a Europipe 2 quiet and GIAC flash will reduce lag to be worth the money.
- shocks: I am speechless how Porsche got this wrong. The ride is amazingly harsh on california highways, completely unable to filter road chatter, yet way supple on the track. Pictures are really comical.
Rear does not squat too much, but front looks way too soft. Will PSS9 or X73 bring improvements in both registers.
Thoughts/advice ?
Top priorities:
- seats: I have standard comfort seats with lumbar adjustment, and lateral support is way insufficient for track use, I need sports seats as a compromise between every day usability and track time
- lag: the on/off nature of the X50 is a handicap on street and track, a costly mod (exhaust + flash). Thing is, I am just not convinced yet that a Europipe 2 quiet and GIAC flash will reduce lag to be worth the money.
- shocks: I am speechless how Porsche got this wrong. The ride is amazingly harsh on california highways, completely unable to filter road chatter, yet way supple on the track. Pictures are really comical.
Rear does not squat too much, but front looks way too soft. Will PSS9 or X73 bring improvements in both registers.
Thoughts/advice ?
#27
06-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Age: 62
Posts: 6,379
Rep Power: 344
X73 will improve that 100%, it is an outstandsing suspension on the track, literally transforms the car. Pss9's are more street oriented.
Wish they would hurry and come out with a x73 for the 997TT, it needs it bad!
Wish they would hurry and come out with a x73 for the 997TT, it needs it bad!
#28
06-05-2007, 12:37 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Age: 74
Posts: 669
Rep Power: 107
#29
11-18-2007, 04:15 PM
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: SF Bay Area / Switzerland
Posts: 308
Rep Power: 34
I received my set of corner scales and measured the weight of my car with a full tank of gas: 3534 pounds (1603kg), 38% front, 62% rear. What a porker ! I am glad I did not undertake to mod the car, now all I am thinking of is finding a 997 GT3 at a reasonable price. The TT is a well rounded GT, but as far for all compromises, it does not do anything really well.
It's a good but not a great daily driver. It's a good but not a great track car.
It's a good but not a great daily driver. It's a good but not a great track car.
#30
11-18-2007, 04:45 PM
Huh.. as I read the thread I saw a progression and sharpening of the 'needs' you identified. But then no action to address these.
I fully expected suspension, exhaust, tune & diverter valves, to give you a more controllable boost (at least this is what I am thinking)...
(I remember when you found yours, I was still looking...I said "Damit, that's EXACTLY what I need to find".... now we have twins!)
IMHO, you can make it a DD or a track car- but not both. Stock it does neither perfectly, but I'd say that was the goal when engineered!
Good luck with your hunt
Adam