4.90 second 60-130 (4.23 100-200 kph) with 2 shifts
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 611
From: Sydney, Australia
Rep Power: 0
With nitrous on board I'd be looking at something larger than GT35R .. still within the Garrett ball bearing fold. Perhaps a pair of TO4Zs .. or the GT40R .. or T51R? I'd steer way from GT40R .. not enough of a difference with GT35R spec.
If GT42Rs work then obviously they would be the turbo of choice. There would be no stopping a pair of GT42Rs once they come on full boost with a stroked engine.
This is me talking out of my **** just based on the recent real world findings, the pro tuners (and big dogs) here all know much more than I do about it.
If GT42Rs work then obviously they would be the turbo of choice. There would be no stopping a pair of GT42Rs once they come on full boost with a stroked engine.
This is me talking out of my **** just based on the recent real world findings, the pro tuners (and big dogs) here all know much more than I do about it.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,509
From: Virginia, USA
Rep Power: 789
Thanks again, guys.
Just a FYI...I'm on my way out of town this morning for some military training until Friday. Won't have internet or phone access until I get back. Have a good one.
Just a FYI...I'm on my way out of town this morning for some military training until Friday. Won't have internet or phone access until I get back. Have a good one.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,325
From: Michigan
Rep Power: 334
I am curious if you built a 4.0 liter motor could you use GT42's and reduce the lag versus using a stock 3.6? Would it perform more like a GT30 on a 3.6 motor as far as lag/spool time?
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 611
From: Sydney, Australia
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by buddyg
I am curious if you built a 4.0 liter motor could you use GT42's and reduce the lag versus using a stock 3.6? Would it perform more like a GT30 on a 3.6 motor as far as lag/spool time?
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 22,235
Rep Power: 1227
Originally Posted by buddyg
I am curious if you built a 4.0 liter motor could you use GT42's and reduce the lag versus using a stock 3.6? Would it perform more like a GT30 on a 3.6 motor as far as lag/spool time?
You still have some lag with the 42's. We arrived at the 4L with 102 mm pistons which brought it to a 3.8L and a 80 mm crank which brought it to a 4.0L.
The bore resulted in a little more power and a little more torque. The .2L stroke resulted in alot more torque in the lower/mid rpm's. I believe the 42's on a 3.6 would have alot of lag ........ really unusable. The 35's on a 4.0L respond better that 30's on a 3.6.
a single gt42r (smallest available) is enough to support 850bhp, I don't see the need for twins from a 4.0L engine unless being run at well over 30psi to see it's performance benefits and even then, it will still be a dog down low.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,787
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Rep Power: 209
Holy ****e Scott your car is smokn'!!!!
It's very exciting to see the "next big thing" come out of Protomotive.
Todd & Cynthia are amazing.
I nkew you were a very skilled 1/4 mile track animal, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you can accelerate with the clutch depressed? How do you do that?
Congrats again to you, Todd & Cynthia. I'm soo jelous!
Mike
It's very exciting to see the "next big thing" come out of Protomotive.
Todd & Cynthia are amazing.
I nkew you were a very skilled 1/4 mile track animal, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you can accelerate with the clutch depressed? How do you do that?
Congrats again to you, Todd & Cynthia. I'm soo jelous!
Mike
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 611
From: Sydney, Australia
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by dgussin1
a single gt42r (smallest available) is enough to support 850bhp, I don't see the need for twins from a 4.0L engine unless being run at well over 30psi to see it's performance benefits and even then, it will still be a dog down low.
You always start with how much power you want to make. That determines what turbo choices you have. Then you use the various compressor and turbine options to configure the turbo to best suit your application.
However despite all the misinformation and plain ignorance, there are some plain facts available to Joe Public:
+ GT28R: Compressor inducer is 52.7mm. Rated at 480 bhp
+ GT30R: Compressor inducer is 57.0mm. Rated at 600 bhp
+ GT35R: Compressor inducer is 61.4mm. Rated at 700 bhp
+ TO4Z: Compressor inducer is 66.7mm. Rated at 800 bhp
+ GT40R: Compressor inducer is 67.8mm. Rated at 800 bhp
+ GT42R: Compressor inducer is 70.3mm. Rated at 850 bhp
+ GT42R: Compressor inducer is 74.3mm. Rated at 1000 bhp
+ T51R: Compressor inducer is 76.5mm. Rated at 1,000 bhp
+ GT42R: Compressor inducer is 80.8 Rated at 1,100 bhp
Last edited by MrBlonde; May 23, 2007 at 07:43 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 71
From: Ozark Moutains, Arkansas
Rep Power: 30
Optimistic turbo sizing
Buddy,
One thing Garrett's not telling you in those catalogs, is those are MAXXED out numbers on those turbos at CRAZY boost pressures to get there. We're making a lot of power with much less boost, and tend to be compressor limited at the lower pressures. For instance, a GT3071R has a 50lb compressor, Garrett rates it up to 460hp, but we're only seeing 9.25hp/lb/min, so I'd rate it at 425.5hp... However, it only produces that flow at 2.2 bar! It's almost 20% less at 1.2-1.4 bar boost where we'd be comfortable running it. And at those levels, it's out on the 55% efficiency island, so you're producing a tremendous amount of heat. And that's in a large Garrett housing, not a recontoured k24 compressor housing... Even in the smaller T04B style housing, they just ran into a wall on Jamies at 630whp or about 741crank, which is saying they're only flowing about 40lbs in that configuration.
The GT3076r's started converging at high rpm at 830rwhp on Scott's or 976crank. They have a 52lb compressor, and at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 481hp each, or 962hp for the pair... So we were right on with those, but those had the huge 4.0" inlets and landed in some nice efficiency islands.
On the GT35R's, they say 600hp, but with a 62lb compressor, at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 573hp/turbo or 1147hp at the crank, for about 974whp on a dynapack, or 940whp or so on a dynojet... Unless you're willing to run huge boost pressures, the 35r's seem to like 30+psi of boost and get really happy there. But we're not playing with Mitsubishi's and Honda's that you can get a replacement block for $800.00 ;p
So, 42r's, I believe would be pretty excessive, unless you were only after dyno numbers. They'd be pretty bad on lag, probably not coming on till 6000rpm's or so. You may improve that with 4.0 or 4.2L and nitrous down to 4000 rpm's or so which would be nice. But that would really only be for drag racing. Otherwise, you'd forever be refilling your bottle ;p Or tolerate monsterous lag. vralexander put a set on his supra, but they run to 10,000 rpm's, so 6000 rpm onset is ok... and he had some supercharger and nitrous to get them going...
Sorry, enough rambling.
One thing Garrett's not telling you in those catalogs, is those are MAXXED out numbers on those turbos at CRAZY boost pressures to get there. We're making a lot of power with much less boost, and tend to be compressor limited at the lower pressures. For instance, a GT3071R has a 50lb compressor, Garrett rates it up to 460hp, but we're only seeing 9.25hp/lb/min, so I'd rate it at 425.5hp... However, it only produces that flow at 2.2 bar! It's almost 20% less at 1.2-1.4 bar boost where we'd be comfortable running it. And at those levels, it's out on the 55% efficiency island, so you're producing a tremendous amount of heat. And that's in a large Garrett housing, not a recontoured k24 compressor housing... Even in the smaller T04B style housing, they just ran into a wall on Jamies at 630whp or about 741crank, which is saying they're only flowing about 40lbs in that configuration.
The GT3076r's started converging at high rpm at 830rwhp on Scott's or 976crank. They have a 52lb compressor, and at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 481hp each, or 962hp for the pair... So we were right on with those, but those had the huge 4.0" inlets and landed in some nice efficiency islands.
On the GT35R's, they say 600hp, but with a 62lb compressor, at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 573hp/turbo or 1147hp at the crank, for about 974whp on a dynapack, or 940whp or so on a dynojet... Unless you're willing to run huge boost pressures, the 35r's seem to like 30+psi of boost and get really happy there. But we're not playing with Mitsubishi's and Honda's that you can get a replacement block for $800.00 ;p
So, 42r's, I believe would be pretty excessive, unless you were only after dyno numbers. They'd be pretty bad on lag, probably not coming on till 6000rpm's or so. You may improve that with 4.0 or 4.2L and nitrous down to 4000 rpm's or so which would be nice. But that would really only be for drag racing. Otherwise, you'd forever be refilling your bottle ;p Or tolerate monsterous lag. vralexander put a set on his supra, but they run to 10,000 rpm's, so 6000 rpm onset is ok... and he had some supercharger and nitrous to get them going...
Sorry, enough rambling.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,710
From: MPLS, MN USA
Rep Power: 466
Excellent Education once again!! Who else has ever given us such good
info. Funny thing is I just had Todd explain all of this over the phone to
me which helped me confirm the K24/18Gs will be perfecto for MY goals @
40lbs each.
I believe in addition to a new King, we may have a ne "Doctor" in the house...
MK
info. Funny thing is I just had Todd explain all of this over the phone to
me which helped me confirm the K24/18Gs will be perfecto for MY goals @
40lbs each.
I believe in addition to a new King, we may have a ne "Doctor" in the house...
MK
Awaiting Email Confirmation
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 611
From: Sydney, Australia
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by TRK
Buddy,
One thing Garrett's not telling you in those catalogs, is those are MAXXED out numbers on those turbos at CRAZY boost pressures to get there. We're making a lot of power with much less boost, and tend to be compressor limited at the lower pressures. For instance, a GT3071R has a 50lb compressor, Garrett rates it up to 460hp, but we're only seeing 9.25hp/lb/min, so I'd rate it at 425.5hp... However, it only produces that flow at 2.2 bar! It's almost 20% less at 1.2-1.4 bar boost where we'd be comfortable running it. And at those levels, it's out on the 55% efficiency island, so you're producing a tremendous amount of heat. And that's in a large Garrett housing, not a recontoured k24 compressor housing... Even in the smaller T04B style housing, they just ran into a wall on Jamies at 630whp or about 741crank, which is saying they're only flowing about 40lbs in that configuration.
The GT3076r's started converging at high rpm at 830rwhp on Scott's or 976crank. They have a 52lb compressor, and at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 481hp each, or 962hp for the pair... So we were right on with those, but those had the huge 4.0" inlets and landed in some nice efficiency islands.
On the GT35R's, they say 600hp, but with a 62lb compressor, at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 573hp/turbo or 1147hp at the crank, for about 974whp on a dynapack, or 940whp or so on a dynojet... Unless you're willing to run huge boost pressures, the 35r's seem to like 30+psi of boost and get really happy there. But we're not playing with Mitsubishi's and Honda's that you can get a replacement block for $800.00 ;p
So, 42r's, I believe would be pretty excessive, unless you were only after dyno numbers. They'd be pretty bad on lag, probably not coming on till 6000rpm's or so. You may improve that with 4.0 or 4.2L and nitrous down to 4000 rpm's or so which would be nice. But that would really only be for drag racing. Otherwise, you'd forever be refilling your bottle ;p Or tolerate monsterous lag. vralexander put a set on his supra, but they run to 10,000 rpm's, so 6000 rpm onset is ok... and he had some supercharger and nitrous to get them going...
Sorry, enough rambling.
One thing Garrett's not telling you in those catalogs, is those are MAXXED out numbers on those turbos at CRAZY boost pressures to get there. We're making a lot of power with much less boost, and tend to be compressor limited at the lower pressures. For instance, a GT3071R has a 50lb compressor, Garrett rates it up to 460hp, but we're only seeing 9.25hp/lb/min, so I'd rate it at 425.5hp... However, it only produces that flow at 2.2 bar! It's almost 20% less at 1.2-1.4 bar boost where we'd be comfortable running it. And at those levels, it's out on the 55% efficiency island, so you're producing a tremendous amount of heat. And that's in a large Garrett housing, not a recontoured k24 compressor housing... Even in the smaller T04B style housing, they just ran into a wall on Jamies at 630whp or about 741crank, which is saying they're only flowing about 40lbs in that configuration.
The GT3076r's started converging at high rpm at 830rwhp on Scott's or 976crank. They have a 52lb compressor, and at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 481hp each, or 962hp for the pair... So we were right on with those, but those had the huge 4.0" inlets and landed in some nice efficiency islands.
On the GT35R's, they say 600hp, but with a 62lb compressor, at 9.25hp/lb/min that's 573hp/turbo or 1147hp at the crank, for about 974whp on a dynapack, or 940whp or so on a dynojet... Unless you're willing to run huge boost pressures, the 35r's seem to like 30+psi of boost and get really happy there. But we're not playing with Mitsubishi's and Honda's that you can get a replacement block for $800.00 ;p
So, 42r's, I believe would be pretty excessive, unless you were only after dyno numbers. They'd be pretty bad on lag, probably not coming on till 6000rpm's or so. You may improve that with 4.0 or 4.2L and nitrous down to 4000 rpm's or so which would be nice. But that would really only be for drag racing. Otherwise, you'd forever be refilling your bottle ;p Or tolerate monsterous lag. vralexander put a set on his supra, but they run to 10,000 rpm's, so 6000 rpm onset is ok... and he had some supercharger and nitrous to get them going...
Sorry, enough rambling.
And there are many choices of Garrett ball bearing turbos in between the GT35R variants and the GT42R variants ... any comment on those?
The question above was what can you do with a 4.0 litre engine using nitrous to spool. Agreed that a drag racing only proposition, however for the sake of the exerise what are your thoughts on turbo selection?