Given all exitment and interest in the forum on the handling prowess and driving characteristics of the GT2 and 3, is it a forgone conclusion that a modified TT can't compete on a track or for fast mountain driving? I sure love the way my modified (stage4GTR with H&R coilovers and GT3 bars with adjustable droplinks, wider Fikse fm10's-18", 15"Brembo GTR brakes etc....). My TT drives better (faster and more responsivly) than anything I've ever driven including modified Carreras, M3's and M5's. Granted, it is a heavy platform and the AWD might neutralize optimum driver feedback but it sure is a great car and I can't imagine that moving to a GT2 (love torque) would be worth the change. I'm obviously intrigued by all the raves for the GT cars, but what about all of you with nicely tricked out TT's? Have you acknowledged that the GT's are a better package? Is it primarily the 2w.d. and corresponding suspension setup vs. the 4 and the inherent weight differential that makes the tt a less optimal performance car? I was once of the opinion that 4wd had significant advantages (even on the track) but this does not seem to be the case on track. Does the extra power of my tt over stock improve the awd application? It would be great to hear other thoughts on this dilemma as I know many have upgraded their tt's and are now contemplating a move to the GT cars. My tt's has been a great experience and reliable to boot, but would the GT be better?

 

IMHO (I emphasize the IMHO) the TT X50 is a better daily driver but if I were looking for a track vehicle that was more challenging and required more driving skill, I'd go for the GT-2. Having said that, I believe that the TT X50 would match the times of a GT-2 - the weight lose of the 2WD would be a wash with the PSM system.

Again, IMHO -

 

Thanks for the feedback Ken. I fully agree that the TT x50 or modded TT is a better daily driver. However, I wish there was some evidence that a properly modded TT could hold its own with a GT2(even lightly modified). This does not seem to be the case with stock units given the noted time around the 'ring and hockenhiem.

 

Anedotially (sp?), I've done Willow Springs 5 times and three times there was a GT-2 and he didn't pull away from me. By the same token, several times there were TT's and they did a good job of keeping up with my X50.

I'd be really interested in having a head to head with someone in SoCal to see what came out on top.

 

and I still want the harness bar if it'll work in my car - I'll try to get over to Poway next week

 

Ken,

The harness bar is still at my shop. Just let me know when you can make it. Too bad that they did'nt test a GT2 along with the modified TT's in the Euro Tuner group test. Would have been interesting. I think Manthey Racing and others also field a TT in race series in Europe and another thread showed them racing in
Australia. Wonder what set-up configuration specs they used and how they compared with GT2's? I have to believe they were competitive or the teams would not use them.

 

Nelson,

I have yet to see a GT2 that can stay with KA on anything but a very tight course.

 

The GT2 is a totally diffrent drving experiance. It's raw where the tt is civilized. It takes a pretty good driver to get the best out of it while mr. Joe average driver can get in a tt and get good lap times first out. That's my opinion anyway

 

I can't believe it necessarily takes CJV's level of mods to overcome a GT2's inherent advantages. Certainly an advantage in hp/torque would help but can the weight and rwd vs awd issues be overcome with suspension tweeks? if so, what are specific mods? My car provides a great driving experience even at 8 or 9/10ths I just wonder how much better the GT experience must be?

 

The cars feel very different. I'm not really sure what answer you are looking for. In dry conditions, the RWD will almost always be faster with an experienced driver. As the conditions get worse and/or the driver gets worse, that advantage gets washed away until the AWD starts to have an advantage.

 

Thanks for the input. Guess I'm just feeling bit perturbed that I modded my car (and really like the results) and now hear that the TT was not the best platform for maximum performance/driving experience. I'm actually shopping for a GT2 as I'm beginning to believe the hype. Though my instincts tell me that I'm not going to improve too much on my modified TT's dynamics and overall enjoyment. Such problems to have eh?

 

Let me put your mind at ease here... modding a TT esp. with your setup is no comparison to a GT2.

My old Protomotive Turbo was MUCH faster than your Stage 4GT even on the most aggressive race program so I have plenty of basis for comparison. With all due respect, Stage 4GT is hardly the benchmark for modding your Turbo. If you said you had the Ruf Nardo engine, TechArt 620 package, Manthey Racing 700hp package, or even my little Protomotive Garrett ball bearing turbo package, your question would be more interesting.

I never understood what all the hype is about for Stage 4GT, I guess maybe because it gives you 700hp bragging rights at a cheap cost???

But back to the topic, ever since I got a GT2, I've never looked back. The car is head and shoulders better than a 996 Turbo. Most people on this board will always disagree but NEVER will understand because they haven't had seat time in one. Too bad for them.

I was one of those fools who used to think modded Turbo was better than GT2 until I drove one. It really is the finest 911 available, save for perhaps the GT3-RS.

What CJV doesn't realize is that if he spent that much money on a GT2 it would be a clearly superior track car to his "Killer Angel." He would be the first to say that it would cost $25,000 to upgrade a 996 Turbo to handle like a GT2, which is about what he spent.

If the GT2 were available in 2001, I have a feeling Chad would have bought it instead of a 996TT.

Manthey Racing's 996TT that they use in racing is RWD, not AWD, according to what I've heard. Same goes for the Jurgen Alzen car.

 

Thanks Hamann7. Is it really true that the fast times posted by 996 based turbos on any of the great road courses (n'ring, Hoc.) were RWD? So it appears that the real benefit of AWD in going fast is in bad weather/road conditions. I think this about to get expensive. Anyone in the San Diego area with a GT2 interested in getting together for a ride/share fun run? I think this would be the only way I would ever understand the benefits. I'll spring for lunch.

 

Come up to Malibu or Lucent Motors sometime and you can check mine out.

 

I appreciate the offer. Let me see what I can schedule and get back to you!