How many miles do we get from our front pads? 2002 C2 with 18 inch wheels. Looks like its time for new pads, after 22,000 miles. Basic normal driving. This seems like a good shelf life. Anyone getting more miles?

 

For cars that are not tracked, you should get 40,000+ miles on your front pads with a 6 speed and maybe a liitle less with a TIP. However, it is all driver dependent. Obviously, the more you use your brakes the faster they will wear.

22,000 is extremely low mileage to need brakes. You might focus on how you are driving and use the gearing more than the brakes.

I currently have almost 70,000 miles on the entire brake system that came from the factory. Use your gears to obtain your desired speed, both when accelerating as well as slowing down.

 

Thanks for the reply. I drive pretty conservatively, although In metro NY unfortunately there is a lot of traffic. As far as gearing to slow goes, you can only do so much in traffic. 22,000 doesnt seem extremely low for pads though.

 

I don't agree that you should use gearing to slow the car (i.e., engine brake). The braking system on a Porsche [and virtually every car ever made] is the strongest mechanical system. It is designed to do one thing, brake. And it does that very well.

Brake pads are sooooo cheap compared to new transmissions and new engines, IMO, there is NO reason to even temp fate by engine braking. Put another way, if you are putting unnecessary strain on your $10,000 engine or your $5,000 transmission to make your $200 brake pads last longer, you might have your priorities a bit off.

Back to your original question. What type of pads do you have? Some pads have shorter life cycles than others based on compound. I think that 20,000 miles is a bit low for OEM pads, but all pads are used up a little faster in stop and go traffic, especially in the NYC area. Your driving style may have something to do with it, but I would suspect it was conditions more than anything.

-td

 

Spot on Him. Track or street, braking slows the car. The downshift is to be in the correct gear for the next power application.

 

ouch!

Brakes= cheap
Gearbox= not cheap

 

So, please explain to everyone what is the difference in wear to the engine and/or transmission whether you them use for acceleration or for braking.

What do you do when when driving at high rpm in a particular gear and need to slow down? Do you upshift to a higher gear or simply depress the clutch pedal and slam on the brakes?

 

By letting off the gas you will slow down properly. It's when you downshift to slow down is where the stress on the gearbox comes in not to mention the possibility of over revving the engine in some cicumstances.

Slowing for a stoplight is different than slowing for a turn.

You want to heel/toe rev match when approaching a corner that requires a downshift and braking at the same time. If you don't need to brake you just need to rev match if the turn requires a lower gear.
You don't want to use the compression of the engine to brake with.

Lots to cover in regards to this topic as proper downshifting takes a LOT of practice.

hope this helps

tw

 

This isn't rocket science. The engine is intended to propel the car. The brakes intended to stop it. Further, if you assume that your clutch, transmission, and engine have finite life cycles, using them up by shifting into lower gears and using the engine to slow the car will shorten their useful lives unnecessarily as the braking system could be used for this purpose. This is distinctly different from simply coasting to slow the car, which you do, for example, on the highway when you realize you are going 65 in a 60 and need to reduce your speed slowly. This is normal driving, and not "using the engine to slow the car to save your brake pads."

But, you should NOT engage a lower gear to force the engine to slow the car to save the brake pads. First, you are "using up" the clutch when it isn't needed. Second you are forcing the engine into a higher RPM and could be shocking the transmission when you release the clutch. In any event, you are straining it by going from a low torque position into a high torque position in a non-linear manner. In fact, without proper rev matching, you can add serious strain to the drive shaft and transmission, which may result in chirping the wheels and loss of control. Even worse, you could over rev the engine, which might cause serious mechanical problems. This should be avoided.

Does that answer your question?

Neither. You just push on the brakes. You don't need to slam on anything. It's a car. On the road. You shouldn't be abrupt with your inputs.

Further, basic slowing is taught in teenage driver's education courses. In case a refersher is in order: Push on the brakes to slow the car, with the clutch out. There will be some very slight engine compression also slowing the car, but this is very slight. The engine RPM will also slow, but this is a function of the wheels turning slower. When you get to a nice low RPM - but not stalled, push in the clutch and continue to brake until you stop. With the clutch engaged, select the appropriate gear. Disengage the clutch slowly while applying gas to accelerate. This is how I was taught and it still seems appropriate today.

And on the track, when you are driving at a high rpm in a gear, you would brake with the clutch out until you get to a particular (lower) speed, push the clutch in, blip the gas, change gears, then let clutch out - all in one smooth series of motions, taking less than a second. You could contine to brake, repeating the above, or begin your accelaration.

This is a little harder to master, but this is how I drive on the street now...

Back to the original point: IMO, in no instance should you use the engine to slow the car to save brake pads. It's just silly.

-td

 

It has nothing to do with the intention of saving the brakes. Proper shifting, including downshfting at any speed, adds minimal, if any wear to your clutch. If you are having problems wearing out your clutch prematurely, you should focus on proper shifting.


So, why would you use the brakes to slow your car from 80 to 30 mph or less, except for an emergency rather than downshifting to lower gears as the speed decreases? According to you, you should disengage the clutch each and everytime you want to lift your foot off the accerator.

As for how people are taught to drive today, there are lots of incorrect things taught...including putting the car in neutral at a light.

BTW: You "engage" the cluch to accelerate not disengage it.

 

In response to the OP's question about pad life. You stated: "You might focus on how you are driving and use the gearing more than the brakes."

IMO, this is clearly incorrect. You should use the brakes to slow the car, not the gears.

Now you're talking about clutch problems? First the OP asked about brake pad life, and you said to slow using gearing. Then a few people said, you should use brakes, not the engine, and somehow you are now focused on the clutch...

Are you actually stating that you never use the brakes to slow the car except in an emergency? I seriously doubt that is even remotely true.

But to answer the question: Because that's why you have brakes. Because I want to slow down at the appropriate time, not 1/2 a mile early. Because I want to keep the flow of traffic moving. There are a host of other reasons.

I would expect that the vast majority of drivers use the brakes to slow from 80 to 30.

What? Where did I say anything close to that?

If that's what you got out of my post, you're mistaken. I re-read my post, and I don't think I said "disengage the clutch each and everytime you want to lift your foot off the accelerator." You seem to be misunderstanding or misinterpreting what I stated. In the event it was ambiguous: you should push in the clutch to change gears, that's driving 101. Nothing new here.

And I really don't know why you're so stuck on this clutch thing.

Your engine braking comment is a case in point.

Sorry I had my disengage/engage backwards. I think the point was still clear despite the typo.

-td

 

"Further, basic slowing is taught in teenage driver's education courses. In case a refersher is in order: Push on the brakes to slow the car, with the clutch out. There will be some very slight engine compression also slowing the car, but this is very slight. The engine RPM will also slow, but this is a function of the wheels turning slower. When you get to a nice low RPM - but not stalled, push in the clutch and continue to brake until you stop. "

So, when driving on the highway in 6th gear doing 70 mph and approaching a toll booth, you simply lift your foot off the gas, apply the brakes and allow the car to slow down short of the stall speed and then disengage the clutch? And all this time you remain in 6th gear? Sounds like you would be happier with a TIP.

Most people are taught to drive on an automatic and the method of slowing down you describe is fine for an automatic, but is improper and unsafe for a manual transmission.

I suspect you use the engine daily for braking and don't even realize it.

I would suggest downshifting as you approach the toll booth, allowing the drivetrain to assist you in slowing down as it is designed to do. You'll also be in a better, safer gear if the need comes for you to accelerate quickly.




"If that's what you got out of my post, you're mistaken. I re-read my post, and I don't think I said "disengage the clutch each and everytime you want to lift your foot off the accelerator." You seem to be misunderstanding or misinterpreting what I stated. In the event it was ambiguous: you should push in the clutch to change gears, that's driving 101. Nothing new here."


If you do not disengage the clutch when you lift your foot off the accelerator, then aren't you using the drivetrain to slow the car? So, there is no reason to debate, since you agree with me.

 

Wow, still really wondering about brake pad life. I'm pretty sure I know how to drive a standard transmission. Three Vettes, a Trans Am since 84 and hundreds of thousands of miles.. I get a lot of like out of my trannys & clutches over the years. So been driving a 996 C2 since june of 07, using stock pads, still wondering what average pad life would be. Oh and by the way, you should always be in neutral at a light. I have had as much as 90,000 miles out of a clutch.

 

Like I said above, you should expect about 40,000 miles out of the brakes on a street driven car with manual tranmssion.

Secondly, what does having the car in neutral have to do with pre mature wear on your clutch? The PP and release bearing are designed for use and will last far longer than your disc will. 90,000 miles out of a clutch is to be expected for a properly hard driven street car. Many have 120,000+ miles on them.

On a side note, I am surprised that all the tree huggers haven't atacked the people who sit with their tranny in neutral and clutch engaged as this practice uses more fuel than if they sat there with the clutch disengaged.

 

Pads being worn in 20k when the norm is 40k sounds like there could be a problem in the brake system, a stick piston in the caliper or a return problem in the brake pedal assembly.