Hello everyone


I am a Bmw owner (e90) that is in the market to get a new car. I want a car that has 300hp at least that's why I am interested in a 4s or a e46 m3.


I love the look and drive of the 4s, Ive seen price range from 27-37k my budget is $30k . My biggest fear moving up to a Porsche is the repair costs. As owners what would you recommend I do ?


Do I wait and save more money for emergency repairs fund or do I get an M3 for now and visit the Porsche idea couple of years down the line?


Porsche would be driven only weekends and the M3 would be driven as a DD if I sell my e90.


Thank you for your advice/opinions in advance.

 

996's are not new cars. They are used cars. And used cars bring with them the risk of potentially expensive problems. These do not have to be a rod poking out through a hole in the block kinds of problems, but just wear/service items reaching the end of their useful life.

A general rule of thumb when buying a used car is to have set aside 10% of the car's purchase price just in case. Even if you are the best used car appraiser in the whole world, even if you have the 2nd best used car appraiser perform a PPI, the water pump can fail at any time after you buy the car. The RMS can leak. The clutch can give up. And so on.

There is of course the risk of more serious problems arising particularly engine problems and specifically the IMSB (intermediate shaft bearing).

If this goes bad it can ruin the engine. A factory replacement engine can run upwards of $16K to $26K. This price range quoted me a year or so back by a dealer for a replacement engine for my 02 Boxster which didn't need one I was just curious. The lower price was with a suitable core engine. The higher price was without a suitable core engine. I would expect the 996 engine costs to be similar but have not gotten a quote.

If necessary one can of course seek out a suitable used engine to replace the one in his car should it come to this. The initial purchase price of a used engine is less than that of a factory sourced engine but the used engine comes with very little if any warranty of any kind while a dealer installed engine comes with some warranty.

There are aftermarket upgrades that address this weak spot of the engine. Some used cars, not many, but some, already have one of these aftermarket upgrades applied.

My 2nd hand info is that some of these aftermarket upgrades themselves need to be be renewed/replaced periodically.

Thus depending upon how many miles one drives he could be facing a rather expensive service of this aftermarket upgrade every so often.

You'll have to research the issue of these upgrades and compare the various upgrades and weigh their pros and cons and decide which one you want and then you can know what expense you could be facing if the car you buy requires this and if the upgrade requires subsequent renewal after so many miles.

The Pelican Parts web site I think has some coverage of the serious engine issues and upgrades.

Start here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/996_tech.htm

At least one company offering an upgrade has published some articles on the serious engine issues and on its upgrade and I think how it compares to others.

Start here:

http://flat6innovations.com

And look under the Featured Technical Articles section for the appropriate links to the specific articles of interest.

Circa 2009 911's came with a different style of engine that does away with the IMSB. If you want you could wait and pick up one of these cars. 'course, while the IMSB risk is not present you are still dealing with a used car and the risk of something going wrong. (Water pump, clutch, etc.) While not the end of the world these can be expensive to put right.

While I'm sure I'm telling you what you already know, even if you get a used 996/997 for a dollar, the car sold new for many many times that amount -- $70K and more, in some cases much more - and they still are expensive cars to maintain and repair should it come to that. Even with my 02 Boxster and my 03 Turbo the dealer doesn't discount its labor or parts costs just because the cars are old and in the case of the Turbo the car was bought used by me.

 

thank you for the information I will check out the tech section

 

Barring catastrophic engine failure, I would not expect that a 996 C4S will cost much (if any) more to maintain than an E46 M3.

 

Macster has stated the worst case scenario. So far, I've only paid for an oil change. Once our garage is built, we'll be doing a lot more DIY. This forum is a great resource for diy's, and you'll quickly find out how tight the local community is. We have 2 911's we use as DD-- a Daily Dose of stupid grinning. The family hauler is only used on the weekends.

 

I have a 2003 C4S and have only paid for general maintenance so far. I use it on weekends and 2-3 days a week. The C4S, IMO, is a good DD.

 

Although mine isnt a c4s , I do have a .2 targa that I use as my daily driver. It sees maybe 100 miles or so during the weekdays and gets used sometimes on the weekends. Maint is a lot of DIY style stuff which can save you a lot of money. This car so far has been cheaper to run than my b7 audi a4 I had prior to the targa. Now if I didnt do the work myself, this would be a different story.

I would say get 996 c4s and dont turn back.

 

thank you for all the feedback. It seems like I will try to do some basic DIY myself to save money for the more expensive repairs if they come up in the future with my purchase.


I have seen some ads from Truspeed in costa mesa, any of you know about this company? They seem to have clean cars but just a little out of my price range.

 

I owned both a 335 and C4S at the same time. I sold the C4S because it was slower than my 335, handling was not a drastic improvement, and I got more of a thrill driving my modded 335 (IC, Cobb, FBO, M Suspension) vs. my what truly felt relatively tame Porsche. Plus I had 2 more doors and I didn't need to worry about replacing an engine at $16k. Also warranted or not, I felt like the redheaded stepchild Porsche owner having a 996.

In the 6 months I owned the Porsche I put more into maintenance than the entire life of my BMW ownership.

 

^^^ you got the wrong model.

The C4S is more of a GT car compared to other models so it will not be an all out sports car. The fact is it is heavier and slower than other models and less involving.

Comparing modded turbocharged I6 isn't really apples to apples either.

As for maintenance, it's always going to be higher in both parts and labor. This is the reason why I can't stress enough to buy an example where all the deferred maintenance has already been done if you're concerned about this. Also if you can't diy some of the stuff, be prepared to fork over a good amount of change if/when you have to get something done.

Porsches don't mix with conservatives that are looking for Camry like reliability and cost of ownership.

FWIW, I've had my car around 4 years with only oil change, plugs, coil packs done so far at around $700. Other costs were all modding cost.YMMV

I also had the e90 335i and from a practical and urban commuting perspective, it was the better car. However it did not match the 996 on track and feel.

This is coming from a life long Bimmer enthusiast that still has 2002tii, e30 m3, e46 touring, R100 in his current stable.

But generally it boils down to a personal decision based on ones comfort level.

I see too many Honda/Toyota owners expecting Porsche to be the same which it isn't.

Now on the other hand, if you're used to owning used Audi's, Land Rovers, Jags, etc., You'd fit right in.

 

How big is your garage? Nice points above. I do recall Audi having $69 oil & filter coupons (instead of $230ish) which Porsche doesn't offer

If not DIY, I've found Indy has been the less expensive way to go.

 

My dealer oil change cost is $109.00.

 

these cars all have big bills at some point . learning about them and systematic maintenance is the key too being a happy owner .

 

I totally agree and have had my C2 1999 manual 996 cab 3 and a half years now. Done just short of 30000 in it. Now at 73000. Done all my own DIY preventative maintenance work. I am 73 years of age. Saved a small fortune on labor cost. IMHO DIY is the way to go for a 100% trouble free life style. I don't mind in the least paying for a Porsche Mechanic to do the things out of my skill BUT hopefully, those problems will be 'held at bay' while I am still around. The 996 is the deal of the century, no ifs or buts about it.

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/Profess...Kit-69312.html


Will this do for a beginner? I know it isn't a snap on or craftsman.