What are the current market conditions? I've only been following trends for about 6 months, and not seeing any change, but of course that doesn't mean anything. Hagerty's Valuation tool doesn't show anything beyond the 993, so I don't know where else to go or who else to ask.

I did a couple searches on here, one for "depreciation" and one for "market value" and browsed around. After driving a C2 and C4S back to back, I've set my sights on a 996 C4S, coupe, 6spd, preferably Guards Red, but I'll take the more common silver too depending on the price.

I can save up for a year and pay cash, or I can finance it through somewhere like PenFed or do a Home Equity Loan for about 3%.

If it were entirely up to me I would just finance it, but honestly, I need to do whatever I can to improve the WAF (wife approval factor) of this purchase. If I can show her that the depreciation has mostly bottomed, or even better, the car is on a slight upswing, that would be perfect. I don't want to save $1200 by not financing but then have the car go up in price $3k while I'm saving to pay cash. I've been casually following the market on cars like the 964 and 993, and honestly it's scaring me a little. I know the 996 isn't the most loved model, so things are a little different, but I *love* the C4S and it seems to be valued much higher than the C2 for the 996, just like the earlier generations.

I'd appreciate any help or advice. Thanks!

 

Feedback regarding market values of any car range all over the map. Some claim to have seen a big jump in "value" after they purchased a car.

Really, you need to treat the car as a deprecating asset. If (big if) when you go to sell/trade in the car you realize more for it than you paid (and better yet, but it is a dream, more than your expenses) then that's a bonus.

But you have to be prepared for the car to have lost a substantial amount of its value. This is why the biggest cost of owning a car is depreciation.

You can get lucky and buy a car that you end up having to spend no real money servicing and keeping up. You can of course help yourself in this regard by not driving the car. But the car gets older regardless and generally worth less.

By the time a car starts to appreciate in value because of some perceived attribute -- some kind of rarity, exclusiveness, previous owner history, etc. -- you will probably not be the owner.

My best advice is to find a good example of the type of car you want. Make sure it has no stories, no mod's, and has no current issues. Avoid overpaying for the car. Pay cash if at all possible. Used car financing is probably pretty expensive and this just means the car needs to appreciate even more for you to recoup what you "paid" for the car.

After you buy the car take good care of the car. More than just regular servicing show it some "love" by taking care of the little things. Keep it looking nice.

Oh, and enjoy the car. (If you are not going to enjoy the car buy stock instead.)

When (if) you go to sell the car/trade in the car it will have experienced as little depreciation as possible.

And it may have appreciated some. Maybe.

(I bought a new H-D Sportster (1000cc) in 1976. Paid $2610 for the thing. A year latter and with 6K miles I sold it for what I paid for it. (And considered myself damn lucky. The motorcycle was a piece of crap. I mean I took care of it, didn't beat on it, wreck it, modify it (well, I put drag pipes on it to remove the heavy stock exhaust system), but it was just a lousy motorcycle.) The only vehicle, motorcycle, machine tool, anything I've owned and sold that I've came anywhere near breaking even on. 'course, there were taxes, license, insurance, servicing I paid out for the motorcycle. Never recouped that. Honestly, if I knew then what I know now I would have not bought the motorcycle but instead bought H-D stock. Lots and lots of H-D stock.)

 

The 996s have bottomed out IMO and seem to be trending slightly higher. As the 964s/993s remain out of reach for most first time buyers, the demand for the "affordable" 911 should remain strong. Nice manual C4S coupes seem to be high 20s to low 30s and I can't imagine them dropping significantly from there. The biggest risk of losing money on a 996 is a major repair cost, not depreciation. Consider the worst case scenario (engine failure) and have a plan for dealing with it, even if that is a remote possibility. Look into an extended warranty if necessary. As Macster says buy the best one possible, with records, and have a Porsche mechanic go through it. You don't want to buy it and then realize it needs $5k in work (easy to do in a Porsche). Good luck!!

 

As a 2002 C4S coupe owner for about five years, I agree that in general there seems to be a higher premium for them but it is hard to quantify. 996s still are low in general and the market seems to be very individual car specific, unlike 993's which seem to command strong prices almost regardless of condition.

If I had to guess on real world value today for my car it would likely be in the 27-29 range given the condition, mileage (68k), extras (additional set of wheels and tires and PSS9 suspension) and work done in the last 5k miles (clutch, rotors and pads, window regulators, AOS). While my car is technically not on the market, I may be interested in selling if it makes sense. You're in Seattle and I'm in Vancouver WA if you're interested in chatting, send me a pm. Either way, good luck with your search, the C4S is a great car for the money.

 

I just bought a C4S in Seattle in guard's red... sorry I seem to have snagged the exact car you were looking for I'll sell you mine in a year after I find the perfect 997S to replace it. After searching for almost a year for a 911, so here are my thoughts based on that experience:

- Prices have definitely bottomed out (or starting to rise slowly) for high-quality cars.
- There are just not that many C4Ses available out there on the west coast. Your selection is very limited. Given the same quality/mileage there are almost 10x as many mk1 Carreras, and probably 4x as many mk2.
- If you are picky about options, colors, etc. then you need to be able to act VERY QUICKLY once you find a car that you like, because changes are that it won't last long, especially if it's a nice one. I wanted a non-silver car preferably in Yellow, Red, White, or Grey (in that order) and was willing to take one without PSE. Know what you're willing to take, and what is a deal-breaker.
- Be patient. I was willing to get a C2 or a C4S and I still took almost a year of looking around to find the right car in a color I liked at the right price and condition. I got very lucky, and I could have just as easily still been looking if I hadn't found mine.

Based on your situation, I would be prepared to get the home eq. loan, and start looking for a car now. If you find the right one pull the trigger immediately. You can always save up and pay off the loan quickly. But if the right car slips through your fingers... you're SOL.

 

I am working a deal on a 2005 C4S as I type this because I think they have bottomed out and will begin to creep up.

 

JLeBlanc, bet youre the lucky guy who aced me out of that car! The guy was only asking $25k, right? Best deal I'd seen since mid-August.

I just bought an 03 C4S coupe M6 that came from Seattle. A really good car for 26k.
FWIW, I think 996s will keep going down, but are still alot of car for the $. Of the 5 P cars Ive bought n sold, none have hurt me, including a 914-6 whose newly rebuilt engine failed within a month!

 

C4s' are not going down; they are the more desirable model after the Turbos's and GT's I agree that C2's haven't moved up much but still aren't going down except for the 99-2001 with those strange headlights. Of course this is in Canada, fewer vehicles to choose from. The cheap cars are usually are cheap for a reason.

 

I had been searching and saving for 18 months wanting a C4S. My max price point to pay cash was $35k. C4S and $35k or less put me in the market of 2001-2006 years. I ended up with a '04 C4S cabriolet with 65K miles at $30K. The mileage was higher than I wanted but it checked out in excellent condition with maintenance records. I wish you the best of luck with your search.

 

Hey all,

I feel like I can add my experience here.

I bought a 986 S last spring, and dumped a lot of money into it, drove it 7k miles and ended up selling it, but I was hooked. I always wanted a 911 since I was a child, and I was in position to go for it, so in November the hunt began.

Price across the board are slightly up from where they were 2-3 years ago. I was looking for a narrow body 996.2, mainly due to price. I'm the kind of guy that checked cars.com, autotrader, cargurus, ebay and craiglist every single day since november looking for the right car.

What I saw, was that C4Ss sell (well asking price anyways) almost without exception from $26k for a clean car with 70-80k miles to $35k for a car thats guards red or black with 30k miles on it. Add $2-4k for a cab, add $2-4k for guards red. Subtract ~$3k for a tip. This is definitely higher than 2 years ago when they were all $24k except the extreme low miles cars.

Here are my thoughts (I'm located in Upstate New York): the market for 996 C4Ss is strong right now (compared to the last 3 years). If you buy a car, and sell it below 80k miles, there is no way you will lose money. BUT this is my second though. $35k for ANY 996 C4S is insane

Why? two reason:

1) There are beautiful 996 coupe 6mt turbos for sale with 80k miles for $40k asking.

2) Possibly even more importantly, you can buy a mint 2007 or 2008 997 C2S for $35k. I have even seen some C4s and C4S for 35k with about 80k miles on them. You'd have to not do any research to buy a 996 C4s when you could buy a 997 C2S or C4 for apparently the same price.

Therefore, I don't see how the 996s could get any higher, unless the 997s go up too, and I don't see that happening.

Now, for my story. I just purchased my 2003 C4S on Friday! The gentleman who sold it to me had it listed for $27k, which I tihnk is totally market right now. 2003, 59,000 miles, Seal Gray, Small Carbon package, 6mt and came with a fabspeed cat-back, decent service records, water pump done, original clutch and IMS.

One day he dropped the price to $25k, and I called him within the hour. He said "yeah I just spent $2mm on a new MRI machine for my practice and I am currently selling two of my houses... I just don't drive it enough" Well, I could tell the guy probably didn't care about money, so I offered him $23k on the spot and he accepted within 1 second - ha ha! I flew down and picked up the car and drove it home. I am absolutely elated. Car was as described. Not a single surprise. I flip 1-2 cars on craigslist per year, and while I am keeping this one, I have absolutely no doubt I could sell it for $27k or $28k.

In conclusion: 1) market is stronger, but there are still some deals to be had, but you gotta buy from individuals, not dealers. 2) you really gotta think about what you could get instead once prices start getting to and past $27k. There are numerous 2005-07 997 non-S coupe and cab cars for under $30k. Do you really want a 996 when you could have a 997? While they might be the same chassis and engine, that 997 is a real looker. My car made a lot of sense at $23k. I don't think it would have at $28.

 

I think this is totally correct, and if I were still looking, with those PSS9s and the work done I would be all over this car at ~$27k.

 

Congrats, Orangeman. You were def. in the right place at the right time. I searched daily, like you, for 3 months, and found it exhausting.
I "settled" for a color combo I swore I wouldn't at the outset, but I'm very happy with the car.
I passed on many cabrios along the way, and they are much more plentiful and cheaper vs. coupes in the Phoenix market. I guess the NY mkt is different.
As for 996 vs. 997, your reasoning is sound, but IMO the headlights are the only adv. for the 997. I like the 996 interior/gauges better, and the headlights are bothering me less and less. I'm glad the 996 is making Porsche ownership possible for more people due to price, but hope they never become fodder for people who turn cars into trash.