Why is the 997TT Tip so slow?
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.
lambo and lager,
You guys are jusk kidding yourselves.
Just think about it. Not even a salesman wants to loose his job or get in a wreck.
I've test driven a lot of cars, and we all have our own built in limits when we aren't familiar with a car's characteristics. Especially a car that you're not familair with. Even your own instincts would be seft limiting in a car that has as much power as a TT, unless you want to die before your time.
You guys are jusk kidding yourselves.
Just think about it. Not even a salesman wants to loose his job or get in a wreck.
I've test driven a lot of cars, and we all have our own built in limits when we aren't familiar with a car's characteristics. Especially a car that you're not familair with. Even your own instincts would be seft limiting in a car that has as much power as a TT, unless you want to die before your time.
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lambo and lager,
You guys are jusk kidding yourselves.
Just think about it. Not even a salesman wants to loose his job or get in a wreck.
I've test driven a lot of cars, and we all have our own built in limits when we aren't familiar with a car's characteristics. Especially a car that you're not familair with. Even your own instincts would be seft limiting in a car that has as much power as a TT, unless you want to die before your time.
You guys are jusk kidding yourselves.
Just think about it. Not even a salesman wants to loose his job or get in a wreck.
I've test driven a lot of cars, and we all have our own built in limits when we aren't familiar with a car's characteristics. Especially a car that you're not familair with. Even your own instincts would be seft limiting in a car that has as much power as a TT, unless you want to die before your time.
You don't have to take an exit at your limit, you can still drive it hard.
Last edited by lager99; Jan 8, 2008 at 08:52 PM.
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Hell, my salesman kept encouraging me to push it harder and harder. He kept going "go ahead and push the pedal all the way to the floor!" The same thing happened when I bought my SLK55 AMG Mercedes. The salesman kept saying, "take it a bit faster - and this time, use the paddle shifters!"
The only way you get reigned in is if you drive recklessly. I think they expect and want you to drive it aggressively. That's why you can't test drive really limited cars. When I went to test drive Lambos and Ferraris, I drove either the salesman or the manager's car - no in stock cars were being test driven unles they were used, on consignment and with permission from the owner.
The only way you get reigned in is if you drive recklessly. I think they expect and want you to drive it aggressively. That's why you can't test drive really limited cars. When I went to test drive Lambos and Ferraris, I drove either the salesman or the manager's car - no in stock cars were being test driven unles they were used, on consignment and with permission from the owner.
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Do Lambo sales people really make enough to buy a Lambo?
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For better throttle response when driving a tip 997TT, put the gear selector in manual mode and select first gear using the steering wheel buttons. Makes a huge difference between 2k and 4k. The throttle is much more sensitive.
Perhaps the gentleman in the LP640 didn't know how to drive his car, but I beat one consistently at 3 intersections in auto mode (the preferred go fast mode). Of course, I didn't go all out as we were in the city.
Perhaps the gentleman in the LP640 didn't know how to drive his car, but I beat one consistently at 3 intersections in auto mode (the preferred go fast mode). Of course, I didn't go all out as we were in the city.
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As a reference, the three cars that I drive are: 2006 997 C4S (DD), 2005 Lambo Gallardo, and 2006 BMW M5. BTW, I am close in putting a deposit down on an 09 allocation. Just trying to understand this car better before I write that check.
Here is the thing.
1. I have no doubt that the TT is one of the fastest production cars in the world, hands down.
2. I know, it's a turbo car, so I have to rev it up. I know that, I have had many turbo cars in the past.
3. This car is not for 0 - 60 sprint, but OK, IT IS to me, cause on paper it can be!
However, think about this one. Porsche's own dyno sheet states that this engine develops a WOPPING 505 ft-bls of torque at as low as around 2K RPM through and past 4K RPM!!! And, even without the overboost, that number is stated at 460 ft-bls of torque. That is a HUGE amount of torque!!!
Yes, I kept it under 4K RPM to give respect to a new engine, but I did go WOT on it. My expectation was to be able to achieve and feel this 460 ft-bls of torque at 2K through 4K.....and it was not there. This is where the engine did not meet my expectation.
In my research, I noticed a few owners stating that under 4K, it's civilized and the like. Ok, I agreed with that. But, with this kind of power down low (505/460 fl-bls), it should NOT be civilized if I am going WOT on it. What else could a driver do to get power in a TIP short of pre-loading the turbos (stepping on the gas and brake at the same time before launching it)?
That is what I am trying to get at guys. How can one extract the stated power at 2K through 4K RPM in this engine?
Here is the thing.
1. I have no doubt that the TT is one of the fastest production cars in the world, hands down.
2. I know, it's a turbo car, so I have to rev it up. I know that, I have had many turbo cars in the past.
3. This car is not for 0 - 60 sprint, but OK, IT IS to me, cause on paper it can be!
However, think about this one. Porsche's own dyno sheet states that this engine develops a WOPPING 505 ft-bls of torque at as low as around 2K RPM through and past 4K RPM!!! And, even without the overboost, that number is stated at 460 ft-bls of torque. That is a HUGE amount of torque!!!
Yes, I kept it under 4K RPM to give respect to a new engine, but I did go WOT on it. My expectation was to be able to achieve and feel this 460 ft-bls of torque at 2K through 4K.....and it was not there. This is where the engine did not meet my expectation.
In my research, I noticed a few owners stating that under 4K, it's civilized and the like. Ok, I agreed with that. But, with this kind of power down low (505/460 fl-bls), it should NOT be civilized if I am going WOT on it. What else could a driver do to get power in a TIP short of pre-loading the turbos (stepping on the gas and brake at the same time before launching it)?
That is what I am trying to get at guys. How can one extract the stated power at 2K through 4K RPM in this engine?
Those torque numbers posted by Porsche were no doubt attained with the car on boost. If you're driving a turbo car at light throttle you should be in vacuum. You then mash the throttle, the turbos sense the load and start to spool, by the time you got to 4K RPMs you eased off, there is no way that car would have been making 400 lbs of boost at that point. Any high performance turbo car off boost is a totally different beast from when they're on boost.
Its just like driving an automatic car. If you drive part throttle it goes to the next gear at a fairly low RPM if you're in it, it holds a gear to redline. If the vehicle has variable cams, that vehicle would never have gotten up on the cams so it never makes power.
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My tip has over 8200 miles on her. She will be beat almost any non-modded car (save a Veyron and its ilk) in daily driving. The general lack of power that you felt was not any lag, but the lack of that V8 oomph one comes to expect from a normally aspirated engine. That being said, please make no mistake about the ferocity of the tip TT. The tip was designed to be driven hard - very hard. To extract the performance you seek, you will require more than a 5 minute test ride on a few side roads. For most experienced tip drivers, the entirety of the powerband is modulated with your right foot. Bottom line, like all TT's in the past, your best power is when you are in the "powerband" or "on boost". For a tip driver that, generally, means above that 4K rpm mark, not in first gear and not on some abbreviated highly travelled local road. Also, you were with a salesperson testing a $150K car .... how fast could you really go in her ? Not picking on you or the salesperson, but if you really are serious about purchasing a tip TT I strongly recommend that you beg someone who has one for the opportunity to "borrow her" for an hour or so. You will not want to give the TT back .....I promise !
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Thanks Havalilsi and tortesq1 for your input.
I can totally see the issue I am having. The specs provided by Porsche of 505 ft-bls of torque from 2100 RPM to 4,000 RPM under overboost (or 460 for standard mode) is a bit tricky here. Even though the engine is "capable" of producing such power under "full" boost, in actual driving, one will most likely not be able to even come close to those numbers (whether in a TIP or 6 speed) from a standstill (unless power braking).
Thinking back. From a stand still, I hit the throttle to the floor in first gear. RPM Jumps to say 2K, the car takes off very quickly. But, the problem is...there is no real boost yet at that point. Therefore, actual torque at 2K is probably 1/2 or less of the stated amount. It takes about say half a second to a full second to built up the boost, but by then, I am already at 4K RPM, I shift. Boost drops down to zero, second gear in....it take a half a second or so to get the boost up...but, it's at 4K again...I shift...and so on. I am basically driving the car without the boost I need to make me
Without the FULL boost, I will never be able to expect the kind of POWER that is noted on paper.
Ok guys, next test drive....
I can totally see the issue I am having. The specs provided by Porsche of 505 ft-bls of torque from 2100 RPM to 4,000 RPM under overboost (or 460 for standard mode) is a bit tricky here. Even though the engine is "capable" of producing such power under "full" boost, in actual driving, one will most likely not be able to even come close to those numbers (whether in a TIP or 6 speed) from a standstill (unless power braking).
Thinking back. From a stand still, I hit the throttle to the floor in first gear. RPM Jumps to say 2K, the car takes off very quickly. But, the problem is...there is no real boost yet at that point. Therefore, actual torque at 2K is probably 1/2 or less of the stated amount. It takes about say half a second to a full second to built up the boost, but by then, I am already at 4K RPM, I shift. Boost drops down to zero, second gear in....it take a half a second or so to get the boost up...but, it's at 4K again...I shift...and so on. I am basically driving the car without the boost I need to make me
Without the FULL boost, I will never be able to expect the kind of POWER that is noted on paper.Ok guys, next test drive....
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Thanks Havalilsi and tortesq1 for your input.
I can totally see the issue I am having. The specs provided by Porsche of 505 ft-bls of torque from 2100 RPM to 4,000 RPM under overboost (or 460 for standard mode) is a bit tricky here. Even though the engine is "capable" of producing such power under "full" boost, in actual driving, one will most likely not be able to even come close to those numbers (whether in a TIP or 6 speed) from a standstill (unless power braking).
Thinking back. From a stand still, I hit the throttle to the floor in first gear. RPM Jumps to say 2K, the car takes off very quickly. But, the problem is...there is no real boost yet at that point. Therefore, actual torque at 2K is probably 1/2 or less of the stated amount. It takes about say half a second to a full second to built up the boost, but by then, I am already at 4K RPM, I shift. Boost drops down to zero, second gear in....it take a half a second or so to get the boost up...but, it's at 4K again...I shift...and so on. I am basically driving the car without the boost I need to make me Without the FULL boost, I will never be able to expect the kind of POWER that is noted on paper.
Ok guys, next test drive....
I can totally see the issue I am having. The specs provided by Porsche of 505 ft-bls of torque from 2100 RPM to 4,000 RPM under overboost (or 460 for standard mode) is a bit tricky here. Even though the engine is "capable" of producing such power under "full" boost, in actual driving, one will most likely not be able to even come close to those numbers (whether in a TIP or 6 speed) from a standstill (unless power braking).
Thinking back. From a stand still, I hit the throttle to the floor in first gear. RPM Jumps to say 2K, the car takes off very quickly. But, the problem is...there is no real boost yet at that point. Therefore, actual torque at 2K is probably 1/2 or less of the stated amount. It takes about say half a second to a full second to built up the boost, but by then, I am already at 4K RPM, I shift. Boost drops down to zero, second gear in....it take a half a second or so to get the boost up...but, it's at 4K again...I shift...and so on. I am basically driving the car without the boost I need to make me
Without the FULL boost, I will never be able to expect the kind of POWER that is noted on paper.Ok guys, next test drive....
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• Put it in M
• Hold the brake pedal as far down as you can
• Press the gas pedal down until the overboost light comes on
• Simultaneously floor the gas pedal as you release the brake
• Hold the **** on!
Note: I've never seen the overboost light, I don't know what it looks like or where it is. I remembered this from reading it elsewhere.
Last edited by vizkiz; Jan 9, 2008 at 08:50 PM.
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LamboPete,
2 points to consider:
1)the Porsche tips usually start off in 2nd gear when in the normal driving mode - makes for rather lackluster starts
2)the Porsche torque claims have been discussed ad nauseum here because in the real world, you cannot get enough load on the engine to produce that low end torque unless the car is in 6th gear and climbing a hill while towing a trailer. Just punching it at 2k means you will get some lag and then then the boost won't hit until about 3k or later.
2 points to consider:
1)the Porsche tips usually start off in 2nd gear when in the normal driving mode - makes for rather lackluster starts
2)the Porsche torque claims have been discussed ad nauseum here because in the real world, you cannot get enough load on the engine to produce that low end torque unless the car is in 6th gear and climbing a hill while towing a trailer. Just punching it at 2k means you will get some lag and then then the boost won't hit until about 3k or later.
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LamboPete,
2 points to consider:
1)the Porsche tips usually start off in 2nd gear when in the normal driving mode - makes for rather lackluster starts
2)the Porsche torque claims have been discussed ad nauseum here because in the real world, you cannot get enough load on the engine to produce that low end torque unless the car is in 6th gear and climbing a hill while towing a trailer. Just punching it at 2k means you will get some lag and then then the boost won't hit until about 3k or later.
2 points to consider:
1)the Porsche tips usually start off in 2nd gear when in the normal driving mode - makes for rather lackluster starts
2)the Porsche torque claims have been discussed ad nauseum here because in the real world, you cannot get enough load on the engine to produce that low end torque unless the car is in 6th gear and climbing a hill while towing a trailer. Just punching it at 2k means you will get some lag and then then the boost won't hit until about 3k or later.
Thanks! I now understand that.
I guess it's part of the "marketing" and "sales" pitch that got me expecting the power I was thinking of. I will blame it on the sales brochure, the sales guy, and me thinking these new turbos should act more like a NA car. I have absolutely no doubt that once reved up, it's a super fast car.
I like your example of towing and going up the hill. That is a perfit example. In almost all other situations, the engine simply revs too fast through 4K to generate any real sizable boost to make a big bang.
Too bad the torque band of "505 bl.ft @ 2,100 - 4000rpm" under overboost(as per the brochure) is not really used as much than. I would assume once reved up, the real RPM band used is 4K to redline. It would be great to have that overboost torque number shifted to 4K to 6K rpm, and this car would be even faster.
Still love the car though. Thanks again!
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A modded exhaust with less backpressure really helps drop the lag time and speed up the spool time so that the car will light up the turbos closer to 2500 rpms under normal loads. You still get a slight "slingshot" effect with the boost but that's what tickles my nether regions anyway. To give you some real world numbers my chipped and exhaust modded 6spd can do a 60-130mph accel run in 7.7 sec. A stock Gallardo takes 12.1 seconds, stock 997tt takes nearly 12 seconds as well.
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