Hesitant
Evidence of ECU tampering = scratch on the ECU case. Nothing more and nothing less. There was no denial of warranty based on anything they found inside the ECU physically or electronically.
Now that you have all the facts, if you wish to keep a link to that thread as some sort of way to bolster your argument, I think it shows you may have a ulterior motive here of discrediting us somehow.
I suggest keeping this thread on topic and not start a mud slinging campaign.
Now that you have all the facts, if you wish to keep a link to that thread as some sort of way to bolster your argument, I think it shows you may have a ulterior motive here of discrediting us somehow.
I suggest keeping this thread on topic and not start a mud slinging campaign.
I think it's a good idea to get back on topic... what we have here are a few folks thinking about software upgrades and others that are happy with the EVOMSit.
Mike, the EVOMSit (not mine) switching has been discussed many times in threads that you can search for or you can always look here:
http://www.evomsit.com/Services.htm#ist
Last edited by sharkster; Dec 23, 2008 at 11:11 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 377
From: Canada
Rep Power: 63
Proof is in the pudding
I think it well established that modifying your TT brings warranty exclusions regardless of federal laws and dealer promises. I would like to know if the dealers who are promising to honor warranty after ECU flash actually do this when a problem arises. I had similar promises from my dealer but they never bore any fruit when I actually brought a problem them! My intent here is not to bash dealers as they have their own and Porsche restrictions placed upon them. And they do offer some important quality services.
This is reason we go to AWE or EVOMS or other reputable (sponsers) tuners on this Forum. From almost all accounts they offer reliable products and excellent before and after service. It's very rare to hear of their products of service not standing the test of time. In fact, has anyone heard of (or better yet, had) a serious problem arising from their products that would have been fully covered by warranty if the mods weren't done (I can't think of one).
I do not read AWE's statement regarding switching to "stock" mode as in any way returning the ECU to it's purely original state - only that the original timing etc. is re-introduced.
Happy holidays!
K.
This is reason we go to AWE or EVOMS or other reputable (sponsers) tuners on this Forum. From almost all accounts they offer reliable products and excellent before and after service. It's very rare to hear of their products of service not standing the test of time. In fact, has anyone heard of (or better yet, had) a serious problem arising from their products that would have been fully covered by warranty if the mods weren't done (I can't think of one).
I do not read AWE's statement regarding switching to "stock" mode as in any way returning the ECU to it's purely original state - only that the original timing etc. is re-introduced.
Happy holidays!
K.
Last edited by Kafka997; Dec 24, 2008 at 10:21 AM.
Hello all,
I'm thinking of doing the SharkWerks flash to my ecu. I currently have the Evoms BRV, Tubi exhaust,Werks One intake, and RSS plenum installed on the car. My biggest concern is reliablity with a flash. Also, warranty issues with said flash. The SharkWerks guys seem to have their ducks in a row, but I would like some forum opinions before contacting them directly. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but maybe some more recent experiences are in order. Merry Christmas.
Thanks
I'm thinking of doing the SharkWerks flash to my ecu. I currently have the Evoms BRV, Tubi exhaust,Werks One intake, and RSS plenum installed on the car. My biggest concern is reliablity with a flash. Also, warranty issues with said flash. The SharkWerks guys seem to have their ducks in a row, but I would like some forum opinions before contacting them directly. I'm sure this has been discussed before, but maybe some more recent experiences are in order. Merry Christmas.
Thanks
Your warranty concern is certainly a valid one and applies to any software. If you have any other questions let me know
Merry Xmas!Your warranty (at least the engine portion) will be gone. The car is completely different after the flash. SharkWerks has lots of options available, so talk to Alex and he will help you get where you want to be. SharkWerks flashed my car at 200 miles and I am very satisfied.
PS I still think you have more yellow stitching than I've seen in a while
Fantastic!My dealer is working with Alex!
If you are upfront with the service manager its amazing how much you can accomplish. This is one case where begging forgiveness is a bad idea.
I would encourage you to use your dealer. Let them ship out the ECU to Sharkwerks.
FWIW, my dealer advised against the ECU until 1000k miles. They didn't refuse to do it earlier, they just said its not a good idea.
The dealer installed all my other mods from Alex and there are at least a dozen others at the dealer who did the same thing.
If you are upfront with the service manager its amazing how much you can accomplish. This is one case where begging forgiveness is a bad idea.
I would encourage you to use your dealer. Let them ship out the ECU to Sharkwerks.
FWIW, my dealer advised against the ECU until 1000k miles. They didn't refuse to do it earlier, they just said its not a good idea.
The dealer installed all my other mods from Alex and there are at least a dozen others at the dealer who did the same thing.
Mike, the EVOMSit (not mine) switching has been discussed many times in threads that you can search for or you can always look here:
http://www.evomsit.com/Services.htm#ist
http://www.evomsit.com/Services.htm#ist
Maybe you should read what is in your link, then read what Andrew from GIAC posted in this thread:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...er-system.html
Here is a quote:
The benefits of the GIAC Flashloader system and how it incorporates and goes beyond the ignition map switching that exists in most OEM programs today.
The GIAC Flashloader system, which includes a flashing cable and a handheld switching device both designed and manufactured by GIAC, is one of the most advanced multi-performance flashing options on the market today. With the our proprietary switching technology, the end user has the option to choose from a host of different settings and modes. Once the GIAC 91 or 93 octane performance program has been purchased our customers can choose to add any combination of the following options: stock performance, race gas performance, "Valet" ( which is a part throttle only mode ), and "Kill" ( immobilizes the vehicle, even if the key is used ). Customers may also purchase our Privacy Firewall which will lock their Flashloader Handheld to their car with an embedded password, excluding all other Handhelds from switching your modes.
With a touch of a button the DME can be switched from a pump gas program to a race gas program or a valet program within a couple of seconds, even with the motor running. Not only does the Flashloader Handheld device alert the end user that the switch was successful by lighting an LED on the button, but it can also read out the current mode on command. Seconds after pressing the read button, the LED will light to show the current or active mode. The speed at which the Flashloader Handheld switches can really save the day. Consider a customer handing their keys to someone to whom they do not want to grant performance program access. As seen in the video compiled by AWE-Tuning and linked below, the Flashloader Handheld switches programs quickly and is very intuitive to use.
http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/multimedia/GIAC_flashloader.wmv
As some of you may know, the 997TT uses knock activity to determine fuel quality. The DME then uses this information to choose between four RON-dependant ( octane ) ignition maps from the factory. These maps are calibrated to take into account varying conditions and levels of premium fuel quality around the world. In fact, one could say that there has been some switching in most OEM programs for many years now, we have seen this since 1985. These maps are, however, closely grouped in terms of aggressiveness and cover a small range of octane levels. One way to offer tuning for race gas and pump gas with in a single program is to spread these four ignition maps farther apart. A tuner may calibrate the first map for say 100 octane, the second for 93, the third for 91 and the fourth for that occasional bad tank of 91. If the customer is running a good quality and quantity of race gas and the knock sensors are quiet, then the DME will run on the 100 map. If the octane level is below 100 and/or the knock sensors register enough activity then the DME will kick down to the 93 map. There have been many tuners that have offered a wider range of octane adaptability by riding the knock sensors through the different timing maps, however we have always wanted to provide our customers with a more stable system.
GIAC has developed quite a bit more for the 997TT computer than just re-calibration of the factory ignition maps to for adaptation to different octane levels. Because of our technical experience, skill and assets, we are able to completely disassemble, modify and reassemble all code within the DME. Since we are able to use GIAC authored micro-controller instruction code and functions in the DME, we are able to add more ignition and boost maps as well as additional functionality to the DME. In fact, we have four ignition maps for the stock mode as well as four for each of the two GIAC calibrations, race and pump. The benefits of this flexibility are that we have maps closely grouped around the target octane level. If a customer is running the race gas program on race gas but still gets some knock activity because of other conditions, like high ambient temp, the DME will kick down to one of the lower race gas maps rather then the 93 octane map in the example given earlier. Having 12 ignition maps also allows us to take advantage of much higher octane levels when customers want full competition files added to there switching options.
For the 997 Turbo, each mode was calibrated separately by GIAC. Our stock, pump and race gas modes are more than just ignition map differences. These are each complete calibrations. When a customer changes from our stock to pump or even to race mode, the DME is doing more than just changing which ignition maps it uses. Many current GIAC customers will notice that the boost changes as well between all three modes. Boost is higher on the GIAC race gas program vs. the GIAC pump gas program. When a customer changes to the stock mode, not only is the power stock, but the easy-to-read boost measurement on the dash will show stock boost.
The GIAC Flashloader system, which includes a flashing cable and a handheld switching device both designed and manufactured by GIAC, is one of the most advanced multi-performance flashing options on the market today. With the our proprietary switching technology, the end user has the option to choose from a host of different settings and modes. Once the GIAC 91 or 93 octane performance program has been purchased our customers can choose to add any combination of the following options: stock performance, race gas performance, "Valet" ( which is a part throttle only mode ), and "Kill" ( immobilizes the vehicle, even if the key is used ). Customers may also purchase our Privacy Firewall which will lock their Flashloader Handheld to their car with an embedded password, excluding all other Handhelds from switching your modes.
With a touch of a button the DME can be switched from a pump gas program to a race gas program or a valet program within a couple of seconds, even with the motor running. Not only does the Flashloader Handheld device alert the end user that the switch was successful by lighting an LED on the button, but it can also read out the current mode on command. Seconds after pressing the read button, the LED will light to show the current or active mode. The speed at which the Flashloader Handheld switches can really save the day. Consider a customer handing their keys to someone to whom they do not want to grant performance program access. As seen in the video compiled by AWE-Tuning and linked below, the Flashloader Handheld switches programs quickly and is very intuitive to use.
http://www.awe-tuning.com/media/multimedia/GIAC_flashloader.wmv
As some of you may know, the 997TT uses knock activity to determine fuel quality. The DME then uses this information to choose between four RON-dependant ( octane ) ignition maps from the factory. These maps are calibrated to take into account varying conditions and levels of premium fuel quality around the world. In fact, one could say that there has been some switching in most OEM programs for many years now, we have seen this since 1985. These maps are, however, closely grouped in terms of aggressiveness and cover a small range of octane levels. One way to offer tuning for race gas and pump gas with in a single program is to spread these four ignition maps farther apart. A tuner may calibrate the first map for say 100 octane, the second for 93, the third for 91 and the fourth for that occasional bad tank of 91. If the customer is running a good quality and quantity of race gas and the knock sensors are quiet, then the DME will run on the 100 map. If the octane level is below 100 and/or the knock sensors register enough activity then the DME will kick down to the 93 map. There have been many tuners that have offered a wider range of octane adaptability by riding the knock sensors through the different timing maps, however we have always wanted to provide our customers with a more stable system.
GIAC has developed quite a bit more for the 997TT computer than just re-calibration of the factory ignition maps to for adaptation to different octane levels. Because of our technical experience, skill and assets, we are able to completely disassemble, modify and reassemble all code within the DME. Since we are able to use GIAC authored micro-controller instruction code and functions in the DME, we are able to add more ignition and boost maps as well as additional functionality to the DME. In fact, we have four ignition maps for the stock mode as well as four for each of the two GIAC calibrations, race and pump. The benefits of this flexibility are that we have maps closely grouped around the target octane level. If a customer is running the race gas program on race gas but still gets some knock activity because of other conditions, like high ambient temp, the DME will kick down to one of the lower race gas maps rather then the 93 octane map in the example given earlier. Having 12 ignition maps also allows us to take advantage of much higher octane levels when customers want full competition files added to there switching options.
For the 997 Turbo, each mode was calibrated separately by GIAC. Our stock, pump and race gas modes are more than just ignition map differences. These are each complete calibrations. When a customer changes from our stock to pump or even to race mode, the DME is doing more than just changing which ignition maps it uses. Many current GIAC customers will notice that the boost changes as well between all three modes. Boost is higher on the GIAC race gas program vs. the GIAC pump gas program. When a customer changes to the stock mode, not only is the power stock, but the easy-to-read boost measurement on the dash will show stock boost.
I've no ulterior motive at all. I'm not on this thread trying sell/push anything other than to at least let people know who are thinking about flashing that they should be fully aware of the possible risks. There is no physical memory on the GIAC handheld switching device and even though you are able to set it to a stock-level boost map/timing etc... you are absolutely not switching the flashed file in the car back to bone stock code. You are telling people that when they "switch" to the "stock" mode that they are going back to stock, which just isn't the case. The other modified code is still on the ECU and it can still be read out with a PIWIS as modified code along with any over-revs etc... (If you have a PIWIS there physically I'd urge to check it yourself). I still think the best thing to do when selling any software is to be up front with people (not to mention the dealer) and in the possibility of something going wrong that you can hope that your dealer works with you if you're honest with them. They're more likely to help you if you tell the truth from my experience.
I think it's a good idea to get back on topic... what we have here are a few folks thinking about software upgrades and others that are happy with the EVOMSit.
Mike, the EVOMSit (not mine) switching has been discussed many times in threads that you can search for or you can always look here:
http://www.evomsit.com/Services.htm#ist
I think it's a good idea to get back on topic... what we have here are a few folks thinking about software upgrades and others that are happy with the EVOMSit.
Mike, the EVOMSit (not mine) switching has been discussed many times in threads that you can search for or you can always look here:
http://www.evomsit.com/Services.htm#ist
You're a moderator. I should not have to explain to you how your original post linking to another thread is inflammatory and ultimately off topic now that I have clarified what the warranty denial was about.
The fact that you have not edited your post to remove that inflammatory link just shows me that you indeed want to "go to the mats" over this, which is unfortunate.
You're trying to divert attention away from the fact that the Evo system has NO way of switching to stock power unless you send the ECU back to Evo.
You attempted to use our engine misfortune thread as "proof" that GIAC is not invisible to scan tools. Not only are you incorrect, but your motives are not pure.
Like I said previously, it would be nice if forum readers could learn the real pros/cons of the various software out there without this smoke screen detour you chucked in there.
I have used the EVOMSit on many cars with nothing but great feedback. We have dynoed many cars in house while logging A/F ratios and the numbers are dead on with what EVO claims.
Gotta love it when your post gets hijacked by another vendor! Wait till they start sending potential customers negative e-mails or pm's thrashing your products!! Alex, you gotta just take the high road and keep doing what your doin bro!
Gotta love it when your post gets hijacked by another vendor! Wait till they start sending potential customers negative e-mails or pm's thrashing your products!! Alex, you gotta just take the high road and keep doing what your doin bro!
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 590
From: Chicago
Rep Power: 70
I've called several dealerships in the LA area and all consistently say that if your ECU has been flashed, they do have the means to detect it, and will not cover warranty related repairs (i.e. engine and all related components). It will also be recorded under your VIN so any future repair claims will be denied. Any dealer willing to do warranty related work on ECU-flashed cars would be in clear violation of policy and if PCNA finds out, then hasta la vista baby. Those who are getting warranty repairs on modded cars, consider yourselves lucky. I can't imagine there would be many GMs or service managers willing to risk their jobs. Bottom line, better hook up with a well-trusted tuner.
Point is, if you are good to your dealer they are good to you. I love it when a guy trashes his dealer online (yes they all read the forums and review the threads weekly in sales meetings) and then expects amazing above and beyond service. Sorry bud, its just not going to work that way, never has and never will.
Get your ECU done and leave a case of nice beer in the boot. No problems!
I don't see where a vendor started this thread.
Your colleague has made that reading comprehension mistake before, too.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,321
From: Fastlane USA
Rep Power: 246
Typical Chicago politics. Just like Blagojevich. They all will crash an burn eventually. Consider yourself lucky.
Its funny, I have owned several modded cars all of them were maintained by the dealer that sold it to me. In almost all the cases the original selling dealer installed the aftermarket components. I had a highly modified BMW that was a cash cow for a well respected dealer, they also showed it off to any customer that would spend 5 mins with them. Aftermarket sales and service is a huge source of revenue for dealers. The manufacturer has the region rep deal with warranty issues and it is case by case, the better the dealer the better the chances of the warranty being valid. My BMW had all 4 wheels off the ground on several occasions and it was marked in the ECU. The Service Manager told me it was grounds for my warranty being void and we both laughed. Broken drive shafts, numerous radiators and the car had more aftermarket parts then I can remember and BMW covered it all and the region rep signed off on all of it. The same time BMW denied warranty on numerous E46 M3's for over rev issues, go figure!
Point is, if you are good to your dealer they are good to you. I love it when a guy trashes his dealer online (yes they all read the forums and review the threads weekly in sales meetings) and then expects amazing above and beyond service. Sorry bud, its just not going to work that way, never has and never will.
Get your ECU done and leave a case of nice beer in the boot. No problems!
Point is, if you are good to your dealer they are good to you. I love it when a guy trashes his dealer online (yes they all read the forums and review the threads weekly in sales meetings) and then expects amazing above and beyond service. Sorry bud, its just not going to work that way, never has and never will.
Get your ECU done and leave a case of nice beer in the boot. No problems!
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,321
From: Fastlane USA
Rep Power: 246
I have used the EVOMSit on many cars with nothing but great feedback. We have dynoed many cars in house while logging A/F ratios and the numbers are dead on with what EVO claims.
Gotta love it when your post gets hijacked by another vendor! Wait till they start sending potential customers negative e-mails or pm's thrashing your products!! Alex, you gotta just take the high road and keep doing what your doin bro!
Gotta love it when your post gets hijacked by another vendor! Wait till they start sending potential customers negative e-mails or pm's thrashing your products!! Alex, you gotta just take the high road and keep doing what your doin bro!
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,592
From: In Front of you!
Rep Power: 1002
I've called several dealerships in the LA area and all consistently say that if your ECU has been flashed, they do have the means to detect it, and will not cover warranty related repairs (i.e. engine and all related components). It will also be recorded under your VIN so any future repair claims will be denied. Any dealer willing to do warranty related work on ECU-flashed cars would be in clear violation of policy and if PCNA finds out, then hasta la vista baby. Those who are getting warranty repairs on modded cars, consider yourselves lucky. I can't imagine there would be many GMs or service managers willing to risk their jobs. Bottom line, better hook up with a well-trusted tuner.
Anyone who believes any group of individuals that start/own/have a programming company that builds equipment to re-flash (ANY vehicle) for more power...that DOES NOT LEAVE A Foot print is extremely ignorant.
Now did I type...they will know if you have xx HP or if you changed the boost by XX no I did not, but to think that these companies have the resources to overcome the depth of knowledge/resources/intelligence ....of the entire _______ (add any manufacture name here) RD/warranty protection group ....coupled with the ability to know their components/units is just ….well in my own words STUPID…..ALL companies that build vehicles KNOW if you have screwed with the ECU or any part of engine management….GET REAL folks you cannot hide it….
NOW if each company you go to tells you …your are at risk with possible warranty issues …GREAT you decide and make your own choice but if one says …. ........... ............ ...................
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,592
From: In Front of you!
Rep Power: 1002
I have reopened this thread, NO vendors will compete with each other for one-upping the other, I will ban members/vendors for a day or a week or xxx..and all of you know I will.
This is a very important discussion, if you can type and not attack another members or vendor then do so...if not stay out or get some time off...life is about choices .... make one.
This is a very important discussion, if you can type and not attack another members or vendor then do so...if not stay out or get some time off...life is about choices .... make one.