Very Nice Product.
I also saw your diagnostic tool on your site, will this work with duramtric or you have something else we can use?

 

I don't have a response to your engineering comments. But as someone who has some experience with welding, I think the the AWE headers are exceptional. Lets just compare the "thickness" others. If you think the AWE welds are too thick, what do you think of the competition. (The last photo is from a "quality" manifold form a European tuner.) I'm not an AWE employee...I'm don't even use their products, but I do understand basics of fabrication and engineering and I stand by my original challenge that European tuners don't necessarily have higher quality fabrication or engineering.

 

I gotta agree with ya Bobby.

 

At the end of the days boys, we are not trying to show off anyone's product, I do thank the participation of pointing out some but no need to get carried away with who's got the better set of headers... but I am sure we all learned a good value to add them on.

 

Thank you.

Do you (or anyone) have an idea of why some headers, like FVD, use a single piece for the primary, while others, like AWE, weld together multiple shorter tubes?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannga

Thank you.

Do you (or anyone) have an idea of why some headers, like FVD, use a single piece for the primary, while others, like AWE, weld together multiple shorter tubes?

I don't think it matters if the tubes are mandrel bent or welded as long as the over all length is the same for each and the radius of the tubing is not "cheated." What does matter is that the radii are not cheated...meaning tubing bend needs to be cut perpendicular to the "tangent" line.

If the tubing is cut at an angle that is not perpendicular to the tangent, the overall radius changes and flow is disrupted. When you piece together pieces, not only do you have to check to make sure the radius is constant, but the joints for the pieces also do not cause a radius change.

 

Thanks Bob.

Some more reading material below. The more I read, the more I realize how complicated this is and that there doesn't seem to be a one size fit all design. Large tube is better at high engine speed, while small tube is better at low engine speed?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...o_tech102.html

Manifold design on turbocharged applications is deceptively complex as there many factors to take into account and trade off
General design tips for best overall performance are to:

• Maximize the radius of the bends that make up the exhaust primaries to maintain pulse energy
• Make the exhaust primaries equal length to balance exhaust reversion across all cylinders
• Avoid rapid area changes to maintain pulse energy to the turbine
• At the collector, introduce flow from all runners at a narrow angle to minimize "turning" of the flow in the collector
• For better boost response, minimize the exhaust volume between the exhaust ports and the turbine inlet
• For best power, tuned primary lengths can be used

Cast manifolds are commonly found on OEM applications, whereas welded tubular manifolds are found almost exclusively on aftermarket and race applications. Both manifold types have their advantages and disadvantages. Cast manifolds are generally very durable and are usually dedicated to one application. They require special tooling for the casting and machining of specific features on the manifold. This tooling can be expensive.
On the other hand, welded tubular manifolds can be custom-made for a specific application without special tooling requirements. The manufacturer typically cuts pre-bent steel U-bends into the desired geometry and then welds all of the components together. Welded tubular manifolds are a very effective solution. One item of note is durability of this design. Because of the welded joints, thinner wall sections, and reduced stiffness, these types of manifolds are often susceptible to cracking due to thermal expansion/contraction and vibration. Properly constructed tubular manifolds can last a long time, however. In addition, tubular manifolds can offer a substantial performance advantage over a log-type manifold.

 

The less parts a header has,the less possibilities has to crack in welding point between pieces...If you buy a pair of headers and they crack very close to a welding point then you will understand my point...My headers have only a few weldings...but they cracked and had to be replaced...

 

This is some serious research! Thanks Can, as always the forum's encyclopedia

 

I think you guys may be overthinking this...I know I suffer from the same disease...if you can...drive cars with the different brands and talk to as many people as you can.

As I said earlier...the FVD headers have treated me exceptionally well...trust me...I would be the first one to spout off if I was displeased.

That being said I haven't heard anyone really speak poorly of any of the major brands.

So just get a set and enjoy them asap...

 

You're welcome. You meant to say I am the forum's "Google Director."
Seriously, I am new to a lot of these mods and would hardly consider my knowledge encyclopedic. I am learning just like you.

 

The "funny" thing about this is that if this is true, and assuming header temp affects IAT (Header is upstream from intake so it should, no?), then KA 997TT's original question about whether header afffects IAT is actually a good one, and the answer is not as obvious as one might think.

 

If you a referring to the possibility of the dissipated heat from the headers heating the intake enough to change the incoming air temp. I think this is impossible as the velocity of the air through the intake would not allow this to happen. I have returned to my garage after some really "spirited" driving and while letting the car idle cool, opened the rear hatch and the intake "Y" pipe is actually cool to the touch even though the out rush of hot engine compartment air feels like a furnace door has been opened.

 

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/sales4/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:1627421319 -2147483648 8 0 66047 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} p.MsoBodyText, li.MsoBodyText, div.MsoBodyText {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Arial; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {colorurple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} /* List Definitions */ @list l0 {mso-list-id:394355404; mso-list-type:hybrid; mso-list-template-ids:-1764352436 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;} @list l0:level1 {mso-level-tab-stop:.5in; mso-level-number-position:left; text-indent:-.25in;} ol {margin-bottom:0in;} ul {margin-bottom:0in;} --> </style> Cannaga,

In reference to our header's, the turbo header's exhaust flow has such a short length of travel that we choose a mandrel bend set up so that the flow travel's as smoothly as possible. Another reason is that we must pass TÜV approval in Germany. The TÜVperforms an extreme exhaust temperature test, in order to assure the consumer that the parts will withstand cracking and splitting. Turbo exhaust components are subjected to test temperatures in excess of 1,400 degree’s Celsius for extended periods. We have found that a segmented header design will not stand up to this test as well as the mandrel bent design.

American / German aftermarket manufacturing is very, very similar and their are excellent product's made by both countries. To me the only difference is that German tuner's must undergo serious scrutiny to have their product's approved to be sold in Germany. And in my opinion, the benefactor is the consumer....

If you would like to know more about the TÜV and what we must do in order to sell our products here is a little more info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%9CV

I think this statement from Wikipedia says it all "Most vehicle modifications also need to be approved, from installing tires of a different size to materials used in nuts and bolts. The German safety guidelines are among the strictest in the world, and getting a road permit for custom-built vehicles is said to border on the impossible." Wikipedia..

FVD-Brombacher parts passed these criteria in order to obtain the TÜV stamp of approval:

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <u1:WordDocument> <u1:View>Normal</u1:View> <u1:Zoom>0</u1:Zoom> <w oNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </u1:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->Corrosion Test - Exterior metal parts (ie exhaust, brakes, rims, etc.) must undergo a HCL (Hydrocloric Acid) bath, which speeds up the corrosion process. This ensures long lasting, highly durable parts which benefit the end consumer.<o></o><o></o>
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--><o></o>
Extreme Temperature Test - Items are put through -40 degree’s Celsius to + 85 degree’s Celsius sudden temperature change. This test ensures that rapid material expansion and contraction does not cause cracking or material inconsistency.<o></o>

<o></o>Material Analysis - Chemical makeup and microscopic material analysis is done to determine the correct percentages of iron, zinc as well as other elements. This helps to ensure material consistency and longevity.<o></o>

<o></o>Exhaust Temperature Test - Exhaust items are also put through a series of extremely high temperature tests in order to assure the consumer that the parts will withstand cracking and splitting. Exhaust components are subjected to test temperatures in excess of 1,400 degree’s Celsius! In perspective, normal exhaust gas temperatures usually only reach around 800 degree’s Celsius.

Thanks,
Rhonda

 

Thanks for the kind words KA 997TT, our diagnostic tool is durametric. We also use a durametric cable for our flashload software. In fact we are beta testing the 997TT software flash application right now. We will not release it however until it is 100% bulletproof for the end user.