Track Upgrade Input
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Track Upgrade Input
I have a 2007 997 TT and use it 90% Track and 10% DD. I am trying to decide what my next upgrade should be to improve my performance on the track ( of course more practice/seat time ! ). I am in process of new seats, roll bar, harness and have swithed to Padgid RS29 pad and R compound tires. I have been tracking the car for two years and would like the collective input.
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Best upgrade? GT3 I'm afraid. Seats, aftermarket exhaust, wheels and R compound tires are all good ideas because they are lighter than OEM. But I think it's an uphill battle to make the turbo into a great track machine given its weight. Suspension changes are important on this car, though I have not gone beyond GMG springs & sways. Prior experience with PSS 9's suggest the PSS 10's would be an improvement though there are purportedly much better packages for dedicated track use.
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The GT3 is much closer to its maximum potential than the turbo. There is a lot of things that you can do to make the turbo a more trackworthy car, many of which are relatively simple like a proper alignment.
The disadvantage of the turbo's weight can be offset by a substantial upgrade in the damper and spring system...something more appropriate for it's rear weight.
If you think the only thing to do is upgrade to a GT3, take a look over to the 996TT forum...and see the number of track rats who have turned their turbos into gazelles.
The disadvantage of the turbo's weight can be offset by a substantial upgrade in the damper and spring system...something more appropriate for it's rear weight.
If you think the only thing to do is upgrade to a GT3, take a look over to the 996TT forum...and see the number of track rats who have turned their turbos into gazelles.
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IMO, almost any decent car can be made a good track car. It's not just solely about speed but also about agility. The beauty about Porsches is that it has a good helping of each. Just need some minor mods.
1. proper coilovers/suspension
2. lowered ride height
3. custom alignment
4. beefier sways and drop links
5. R-compound tires
6. lighter wheels
7. race brake pads
8. better brake fluid
9. braided brake lines
10. a good driver
1. proper coilovers/suspension
2. lowered ride height
3. custom alignment
4. beefier sways and drop links
5. R-compound tires
6. lighter wheels
7. race brake pads
8. better brake fluid
9. braided brake lines
10. a good driver
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If 90% of your car use is on the track, you need to consider if PASM is even worth keeping...PASM was intended as a compromise between the street and track. If you have little use on the street, I'd consider dumping it and shutting it off with PIWIS or Durametric, and moving to a dedicated damper/race spring setup. JRZs, as Josh mentioned, or Moton are excellent choices for primary track use...Moton has recently introduced a a double adjustable damper that lacks the external remote reservoir for a simpler install...they also have their clubsport system.
Last edited by bbywu; Nov 15, 2009 at 05:09 PM.
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<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>11-15-2009 05:03 AM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 2618857" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>Josh@TPCRACING</TD><TD class=alt1>However, if you do not care about losing PASM, then i would recommend a set of JRZ coilovers. There is no better suspension for your vehicle than a set of JRZ coilovers...Don't believe me? ask the all three winning cars of the 2009 24 Hours of Daytona. Not good enough???? How about 3 out of the last 4 1st place victories in the 24 Hours GT class. If JRZ coilovers can stand up to the challenge of one of the most intense 24 hour races in the world, then I think we are more than capable of find an appropriate setup for your use.
Josh Bers
TPCRacing
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
+1 TPC knows a thing or two about suspension. Believe me... JRZ is a great choice for dampers.
<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>11-15-2009 04:04 PM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 2619473" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>bbywu</TD><TD class=alt1>If 90% of your car use is on the track, you need to consider if PASM is even worth keeping...PASM was intended as a compromise between the street and track. If you have little use on the street, I'd consider dumping it and shutting it off with PIWIS or Durametric, and moving to a dedicated damper/race spring setup. JRZs, as Josh mentioned, or Moton are excellent choices for primary track use...Moton has recently introduced a a double adjustable damper that lacks the external remote reservoir for a simpler install...they also have their clubsport system. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
JRZ has the RS line that is a double adjustable damper without the external reservoirs. That is what I have in my car and I love it. Either way, you can't go wrong with JRZ or Moton.
Josh Bers
TPCRacing
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
+1 TPC knows a thing or two about suspension. Believe me... JRZ is a great choice for dampers.
<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>11-15-2009 04:04 PM</TD></TR><TR title="Post 2619473" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>bbywu</TD><TD class=alt1>If 90% of your car use is on the track, you need to consider if PASM is even worth keeping...PASM was intended as a compromise between the street and track. If you have little use on the street, I'd consider dumping it and shutting it off with PIWIS or Durametric, and moving to a dedicated damper/race spring setup. JRZs, as Josh mentioned, or Moton are excellent choices for primary track use...Moton has recently introduced a a double adjustable damper that lacks the external remote reservoir for a simpler install...they also have their clubsport system. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
JRZ has the RS line that is a double adjustable damper without the external reservoirs. That is what I have in my car and I love it. Either way, you can't go wrong with JRZ or Moton.
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If you are setting up this car for 90% track duty then the first thing you need to figure out is what type of tire you want to run(hoosier, michelin, Toyo). The rest of your setup will be based off of what tires you run.
The next upgrade would be a set of ADJUSTABLE sway bars. for a car that is going to be tracked relatively hard, i would recommend you stay away from H&R and and the other mass produced bars....They are good for street driving, but they are not quite up to the task of really handling a track car. With sway bars you would have to upgrade to Adjustable Drop-Links as well.
Next, you want to continue to focus on the suspension. A set of adjustable toe links will help get you the perfect alignment. Some will also swear by upper control arms to gain camber, (dogbones) but we have found them to be unnecessary. The proper way to gain more camber would be with a set of GT3 adjustable lower control arms.
After all that it would now be time for a GOOD set of adjustable coilovers. Which brings up a couple questions. Do you have PASM, if you have it, is it necessary that you keep it? If you want to retain your PASM, you have 2 options. A set of Bilstien PSS coilovers. Or a set of TPCRacing modified Bilstien PSS coilovers. The TPCRacing modified Bilstiens are very special. We have modified their spring rates as well as the valving. On top of that, we reprogram the factory PASM control unit so that street mode is a little closer to sport mode, but sport mode will transform the car into a very formidable track car. However, if you do not care about losing PASM, then i would recommend a set of JRZ coilovers. There is no better suspension for your vehicle than a set of JRZ coilovers...Don't believe me? ask the all three winning cars of the 2009 24 Hours of Daytona. Not good enough???? How about 3 out of the last 4 1st place victories in the 24 Hours GT class. If JRZ coilovers can stand up to the challenge of one of the most intense 24 hour races in the world, then I think we are more than capable of find an appropriate setup for your use.
Considering how much power a 997Turbo has, adding power should be that last thing on your list. I'm sure many here will agree with this, learn to handle the car with the 480hp you have before going out to get more power.
At TPCRacing, road racing is our passion. And setting up winning race cars is something that we have unparalleled experience with. If you have any questions about setup, do yourself a favor and give us a call here at TPCRacing, we'll be more than happy to help you with your setup.
Josh Bers
TPCRacing
The next upgrade would be a set of ADJUSTABLE sway bars. for a car that is going to be tracked relatively hard, i would recommend you stay away from H&R and and the other mass produced bars....They are good for street driving, but they are not quite up to the task of really handling a track car. With sway bars you would have to upgrade to Adjustable Drop-Links as well.
Next, you want to continue to focus on the suspension. A set of adjustable toe links will help get you the perfect alignment. Some will also swear by upper control arms to gain camber, (dogbones) but we have found them to be unnecessary. The proper way to gain more camber would be with a set of GT3 adjustable lower control arms.
After all that it would now be time for a GOOD set of adjustable coilovers. Which brings up a couple questions. Do you have PASM, if you have it, is it necessary that you keep it? If you want to retain your PASM, you have 2 options. A set of Bilstien PSS coilovers. Or a set of TPCRacing modified Bilstien PSS coilovers. The TPCRacing modified Bilstiens are very special. We have modified their spring rates as well as the valving. On top of that, we reprogram the factory PASM control unit so that street mode is a little closer to sport mode, but sport mode will transform the car into a very formidable track car. However, if you do not care about losing PASM, then i would recommend a set of JRZ coilovers. There is no better suspension for your vehicle than a set of JRZ coilovers...Don't believe me? ask the all three winning cars of the 2009 24 Hours of Daytona. Not good enough???? How about 3 out of the last 4 1st place victories in the 24 Hours GT class. If JRZ coilovers can stand up to the challenge of one of the most intense 24 hour races in the world, then I think we are more than capable of find an appropriate setup for your use.
Considering how much power a 997Turbo has, adding power should be that last thing on your list. I'm sure many here will agree with this, learn to handle the car with the 480hp you have before going out to get more power.
At TPCRacing, road racing is our passion. And setting up winning race cars is something that we have unparalleled experience with. If you have any questions about setup, do yourself a favor and give us a call here at TPCRacing, we'll be more than happy to help you with your setup.
Josh Bers
TPCRacing
vpmick, have you already upgraded the suspension on the car? We have several local customers who spend considerable time on the track with their 997Turbos. It's a very capable car! However, the most noticeable difference in track performance is from upgrading to a nice set of coilovers and swaybars with adjustable drop links.
Consider the KW Variant 3 line of coilovers. They are true height adjustable coilover with independent compression and rebound adjustments to allow fine tuning of the ride in any conditions. Here's a picture of the V3's installed:
I'd then definitely recommend upgrading to a set of RSS adjustable swaybars with RSS adjustable drop-links. This setup will offer 3 settings for both the front and rear bars, as well as the ability to preload the bars with the RSS adjustable links.
If you're interested, let me know and I'll be happy to put together a smokin' package price for you.
-Tom
Consider the KW Variant 3 line of coilovers. They are true height adjustable coilover with independent compression and rebound adjustments to allow fine tuning of the ride in any conditions. Here's a picture of the V3's installed:
I'd then definitely recommend upgrading to a set of RSS adjustable swaybars with RSS adjustable drop-links. This setup will offer 3 settings for both the front and rear bars, as well as the ability to preload the bars with the RSS adjustable links.
If you're interested, let me know and I'll be happy to put together a smokin' package price for you.
-Tom
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Wow all very good responses, but the ones from Josh/TPC are OUTSTANDING.
I really enjoy reading posts from vendors who are particularly knowledgeable and take the time to give a measured and well thought out response. Josh almost makes me one to go try out JRZ in my car! I wish I could test drive the TPC Turbo one of these days.
To OP: if your car spends that much time at the track, then I agree with others here: Perhaps something even stiffer than Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic. I mean I have no plan to switch out of my Bilstein but it is designed to be a mostly street, occasional track suspension; I use it because I drive my car to work daily. Even Bilstein has more "serious" coilover (independently adjustable dampening) for the track rats.
If you are to use JRZ/Moton/KW (my vote is JRZ or Moton), then IMHO it is absolutely critical that it be set-up by professionals with plenty of experience with suspension setup AND with that particular car AND suspension brand. With multi-adjustable coilover, to me the set-up man is as important as the component itself. I would go so far as to drive a long distance to have the installation if that's what it takes (Indianapolis to Maryland hint hint & LOL). Good luck and have fun.
I really enjoy reading posts from vendors who are particularly knowledgeable and take the time to give a measured and well thought out response. Josh almost makes me one to go try out JRZ in my car! I wish I could test drive the TPC Turbo one of these days.
To OP: if your car spends that much time at the track, then I agree with others here: Perhaps something even stiffer than Bilstein PSS10 Damptronic. I mean I have no plan to switch out of my Bilstein but it is designed to be a mostly street, occasional track suspension; I use it because I drive my car to work daily. Even Bilstein has more "serious" coilover (independently adjustable dampening) for the track rats.
If you are to use JRZ/Moton/KW (my vote is JRZ or Moton), then IMHO it is absolutely critical that it be set-up by professionals with plenty of experience with suspension setup AND with that particular car AND suspension brand. With multi-adjustable coilover, to me the set-up man is as important as the component itself. I would go so far as to drive a long distance to have the installation if that's what it takes (Indianapolis to Maryland hint hint & LOL). Good luck and have fun.
Last edited by cannga; Dec 5, 2009 at 09:46 AM.
