Originally Posted by cannga

speed21, I was wondering what the writing in red was about and then realized you were agreeing more often than not. :-) Sure, even stock Turbo has a hum that sounds like engine lugging in 2400-2800 range in higher gears, and this hum exists in every after-market exhaust I've looked at, mine included. My driving has not changed at all, because even with the stock exhaust, I tried to stay above 2900.

Mainly I was attempting to explain why *even though* there is a resonance, nearly everyone is happy with whatever brand of exhaust that they pick: it's not bad at all in majority of cases. But... I have heard of situations of intolerable resonance problem, and IMHO very likely there is a bad installation, malfunction, or bad/unusual interaction with other mods/components in that particular car.

Congrats on the Europipe. Beautifully made and was a consideration when I was looking but I could not get an audition in LA.

Originally Posted by cannga

8. Resonance (often erroneously referred to as "drone"): Enough ink has been spilled that it's almost mandatory that the audiophile in me add a few comments...

If you search the forums enough, you will see that resonance/drone mentioned with nearly every single after-market exhaust out there, from Cargraphic, to Tubi, to Fabspeed, Europipe, AWE, etc.; the list goes on and on. Any tuner who claims otherwise IMHO is not telling the truth, or has a different definition of resonance, or doesn't know what to listen for. That said, in my experience, the noise is louder the louder a particular exhaust is, and the more low frequency it has. This is a fact of life: If you want to have a nice sounding and medium loud exhaust, please mark my words on this: It will have a resonance. A very famous exhaust I have heard that has the least resonance is also way too quiet and has no low frequency punch to speak of (I didn't like it at all.)...

In the end, why is it not a problem with a majority of exhausts people are using? Answer: The way we drive and the way we adapt our driving. The Turbo power kicks in at 3000, so most of the times, the shift, if you are a "good" driver :-), is done at above 3000. Basically, you do go through 2500 rpm in first gear, but here because it's low gear, there is no resonance, then from then on you will hardly see 2500 again until cruising level. And if you are a good Turbo driver, you don't cruise at 2500. The fact is this: I am a particular difficult and finicky person when it comes to sound, and I've had the Cargraphic for a few years now without any problem. If yours has a problem, check the installation, or check other mods that you have in your car, like an ECU tune that could cause a bad interaction.

Originally Posted by speed21

No worries Cann. Just wanted to add without having to re invent the wheel on your entire review which may i say was very comprehensive.

What really p's's me off with this entire ongoing drone subject is that these 997tt exhausts should NOT require any "tolerance" from the purchaser other than the enjoyment that is expected. Yes, some can/may "put up with it" more so than others but thats the whole point....why put up with anything because a manufacturer hasn't invested the necessary R and D time, money, and effort, to get the damn thing right in the first place before putting products like this to market and taking good money of people.

The lack of honesty on this whole drone issue is astonishing. The marketing you see....great sound....no drone blah blah blah...its just utter BS. Whatever happened to being up front. I never had such problems with the atmo P engine exhaust offerings, or at least the ones i've bought.

Originally Posted by cannga

(You might want to also check the following thread for additional info: http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread...ust/page1.html )

First, my "credential" LOL: I am an all-out nuttier-than-nuts audiophile who cares very much about sound. When I was looking for exhaust systems a while ago, I've had much difficulty when someone waxes poetic about some exhaust system without ever DESCRIBING what it sounds like, so here is my attempt to describe what I hear. I will add some comments on what I have learned about other aspects of exhaust systems (power gain, torque loss, etc.) later. I have listened to many exhaust systems in person so IMHO I have a good frame of reference as to what each of them sounds like. So without further ado: The Cargraphic Loud Exhaust is the first mod installed in my Turbo, about 2 years ago. This exhaust is made by the same manufacturer who produces Cup exhaust systems for (some) Porsche race cars in Europe. It is developed and tuned by a competent and well known tunere who is involved in tuning professional race cars in Europe, RS Tuning. The pedigree is there. The exhaust is made in England.

There are 3 versions of Cargraphic Turbo exhaust, Quiet, Medium, and Loud, and all 3 are available in the US; to be sure you should check with the US importer, Road Sport Supply, a 6speed forum sponsor. They key to remember is this, once windows are up, even the Loud Version (what a silly name, RSS please change it) is not that loud at all. In comparison to other exhausts I've auditioned (many), it has medium loudness. I've been told that in general the trend is that, for US customers, some of those who ask for the more quiet version end up wanting to move to the louder one; the other way around is nearly nonexistent. I've also heard rumor from fairly reliable source that if you are to tune the ECU, the Loud version is the most free-breathing, and therefore the most desirable.

When you move from the stock system to this, you will likely notice that it's a day and night improvement over stock exhaust. It is quite frankly one of the most beloved mods in my car, up there right next to the Bilstein coilover. When I evaluate exhaust, there are 3 parameters I listen for, so here I will compare stock vs. Cargraphic on these 3 parameters:
1. Loudness: I would rate the Cargraphic Loud as high-medium in loudness. Don't let the name fool you, the Loud version of this exhaust is not that loud and about 10% of the times I wish that it is even louder. OF course 10% of the times I wish it *less* loud :-); this is simply the nature of the beast, we don't always want the same thing all the times. For example, the AWE exhaust has similar loudness to this, and the GMG is louder. No right or wrong, just pick what you prefer most here. And below are my rankings of loudness, approximately based mostly on what I heard, and also on what people I think trustworthy have reported. Don't be upset if you disagree please, this is simply my opinion based on the best I could hear, and is subjected to changes any time.
1. GMG
2. A tie between AWE and Cargraphic Loud; BBI would probably be in this group also. Probably.
3. EP2
4. EP1
5. Tubi
2. Frequency balance: Stock sounds whinny, like a hair dryer, with more high frequency. Cargraphic has a low frequency grunt that is fantastic and wonderful to listen too. Plain and simple one of the most important feature of this exhaust system. You hear this most often for example at slight on-throttle, to about 1500 rpm at Stop sign. That's why I sometimes unknowingly act like a juv. delinquent at Stop sign: I rev the engine just to hear it! :-)
At higher rpm, the frequency climbs, until 7000 rpm then it becomes a mechanical scream. If you are in a tunnel, it is deafening, like a race car.
3. Character: Stock is continuous in character, like a Lexus. Cargraphic, especially if you listen from outside, has a spectacular machine gun like staccato. Heard this first time I auditioned this and thought I was in heaven. Inside, like ALL turbo exhaust systems, the sound could never match that of a NA engine. Sorry, just the way it is. I love my Cargraphic but I will be the first to admit that if you want the best interior sound, nothing "turbo" will "crackle" and match the excitement of exhaust systems of GT3, or Lambo, or Ferrari.
4. Hallmark of this system - the deep throat purr LOL: Makes a point to listen for this as you audition exhaust systems because a few other Porsche systems I've listened to seem to lack this low frequency grunt, which gives a sense of power, besides simply sounding d*mn good. Unfortunately until you hear and compare, you won't know what you are missing.

Note that, as in *all* exhaust systems, in-cabin sound is quite different from listening to the car outside, say from the sidewalk with someone else driving the car. The in-cabin sound in general has less of the extreme ends of frequency response and is not as loud. For Cargraphic, the in-cabin sound is very similar to that of GT3 with respect to loudness/freq/character, except it doesn't have as high of a scream associated with the higher RPM climb of the GT3. Bottom line: I would recommend the Cargraphic system without hesitation or reservation over the stock system. It totally changes the driving experience.

Up next, some pointers on exhaust auditioning for those new to this. And lastly, a warning: I am an over-the-top audiophile who still use a tube preamp, so you must take everything I write about audio with a grain of salt.

Originally Posted by 997TTMeister

Hi Can,

Is this the same exhaust referred to as "Super Sound" on their website?

How do you find the loudness at low RPM (Up to 3000 with light load)?

I have the GMG and find it too loud at low RPM for city driving, and I am thinking about the Cargraphic Super Sound as an alternative.

Originally Posted by cannga

(You might want to also check the following thread for additional info: http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread...ust/page1.html )

First, my "credential" LOL: I am an all-out nuttier-than-nuts audiophile who cares very much about sound. When I was looking for exhaust systems a while ago, I've had much difficulty when someone waxes poetic about some exhaust system without ever DESCRIBING what it sounds like, so here is my attempt to describe what I hear. I will add some comments on what I have learned about other aspects of exhaust systems (power gain, torque loss, etc.) later. I have listened to many exhaust systems in person so IMHO I have a good frame of reference as to what each of them sounds like. So without further ado: The Cargraphic Loud Exhaust is the first mod installed in my Turbo, about 2 years ago. This exhaust is made by the same manufacturer who produces Cup exhaust systems for (some) Porsche race cars in Europe. It is developed and tuned by a competent and well known tunere who is involved in tuning professional race cars in Europe, RS Tuning. The pedigree is there. The exhaust is made in England.

There are 3 versions of Cargraphic Turbo exhaust, Quiet, Medium, and Loud, and all 3 are available in the US; to be sure you should check with the US importer, Road Sport Supply, a 6speed forum sponsor. They key to remember is this, once windows are up, even the Loud Version (what a silly name, RSS please change it) is not that loud at all. In comparison to other exhausts I've auditioned (many), it has medium loudness. I've been told that in general the trend is that, for US customers, some of those who ask for the more quiet version end up wanting to move to the louder one; the other way around is nearly nonexistent. I've also heard rumor from fairly reliable source that if you are to tune the ECU, the Loud version is the most free-breathing, and therefore the most desirable.

When you move from the stock system to this, you will likely notice that it's a day and night improvement over stock exhaust. It is quite frankly one of the most beloved mods in my car, up there right next to the Bilstein coilover. When I evaluate exhaust, there are 3 parameters I listen for, so here I will compare stock vs. Cargraphic on these 3 parameters:
1. Loudness: I would rate the Cargraphic Loud as high-medium in loudness. Don't let the name fool you, the Loud version of this exhaust is not that loud and about 10% of the times I wish that it is even louder. OF course 10% of the times I wish it *less* loud :-); this is simply the nature of the beast, we don't always want the same thing all the times. For example, the AWE exhaust has similar loudness to this, and the GMG is louder. No right or wrong, just pick what you prefer most here. And below are my rankings of loudness, approximately based mostly on what I heard, and also on what people I think trustworthy have reported. Don't be upset if you disagree please, this is simply my opinion based on the best I could hear, and is subjected to changes any time.
1. GMG
2. A tie between AWE and Cargraphic Loud; BBI would probably be in this group also. Probably.
3. EP2
4. EP1
5. Tubi
2. Frequency balance: Stock sounds whinny, like a hair dryer, with more high frequency. Cargraphic has a low frequency grunt that is fantastic and wonderful to listen too. Plain and simple one of the most important feature of this exhaust system. You hear this most often for example at slight on-throttle, to about 1500 rpm at Stop sign. That's why I sometimes unknowingly act like a juv. delinquent at Stop sign: I rev the engine just to hear it! :-)
At higher rpm, the frequency climbs, until 7000 rpm then it becomes a mechanical scream. If you are in a tunnel, it is deafening, like a race car.
3. Character: Stock is continuous in character, like a Lexus. Cargraphic, especially if you listen from outside, has a spectacular machine gun like staccato. Heard this first time I auditioned this and thought I was in heaven. Inside, like ALL turbo exhaust systems, the sound could never match that of a NA engine. Sorry, just the way it is. I love my Cargraphic but I will be the first to admit that if you want the best interior sound, nothing "turbo" will "crackle" and match the excitement of exhaust systems of GT3, or Lambo, or Ferrari.
4. Hallmark of this system - the deep throat purr LOL: Makes a point to listen for this as you audition exhaust systems because a few other Porsche systems I've listened to seem to lack this low frequency grunt, which gives a sense of power, besides simply sounding d*mn good. Unfortunately until you hear and compare, you won't know what you are missing.

Note that, as in *all* exhaust systems, in-cabin sound is quite different from listening to the car outside, say from the sidewalk with someone else driving the car. The in-cabin sound in general has less of the extreme ends of frequency response and is not as loud. For Cargraphic, the in-cabin sound is very similar to that of GT3 with respect to loudness/freq/character, except it doesn't have as high of a scream associated with the higher RPM climb of the GT3. Bottom line: I would recommend the Cargraphic system without hesitation or reservation over the stock system. It totally changes the driving experience.

Up next, some pointers on exhaust auditioning for those new to this. And lastly, a warning: I am an over-the-top audiophile who still use a tube preamp, so you must take everything I write about audio with a grain of salt.