997 Turbo / GT2 2006–2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.
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Old May 21, 2010 | 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TT Surgeon
I use a 6" shorty hand wrachet, works perfectly, without removing a ton of stuff.
does any one know what the torque setting is for the o2 sensors
 
Old May 21, 2010 | 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dma550
Cool, thanks guys. Wow speed, that is tight.

I have one of these ratchets and a set of these wrenches with the socket head extensions - very low profile. That shield does look in the way.


I did a larini exhaust on my lotus and hat to *cut* the heat shielding off with an air nibbler, so I am hoping this is less destructive.[IMG]file:///e:/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
None of those tools will work on the top nuts. No bend at top, too long and, ring of spanner too big in dia. You may be able to use it if you take off the intercoolers. The other ratchet you show next to the ruler. Forget it...that will no way work....way way too big on the head. You need the one in pic 1...nice and slim and short handle. You simply dont have the room up there.

Originally Posted by dma550
BTW, Speed21, *thank you* for the pics. I don't know if I called you out, but ++rep!
Thanks and glad to help. It's a be a bear of a job if you are doing it blind first time. I have pics on every step so if you need clarification on any step let me know. Remember the 02 sensors will require the y pipe and air box removal so do that first before tackling any removal of the stock system. The wires clip in too far on the inside of the engine bay to be able to be unclipped and re clipp them into their holder fittings. Its fiddly.

Originally Posted by k_ddsl
Speedyman,
+1 Rep from me too. Great info. Great pix. Great of you to take the time to help out.
Thanks . We went through some greif the first time we did this job so if i can save anyone from the same pain then am always glad to help where i can.
 

Last edited by speed21; May 21, 2010 at 05:35 PM.
Old May 21, 2010 | 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cgng30
does any one know what the torque setting is for the o2 sensors
None required to my knowledge. Just use finesse when tightening. The main problem with these is having to remove the y pipe and air box to gain access to the wires anchor clips down the inside of the engine bay. Get some long coated wire and wrap that around the 02 sensor wires and then feed the long wires back up through the passages on reinstall of exhaust, enabling you to pull the 02 sensor wires nicely up through the passages where they go. Trying to fish them back up after the cats and exhaust is in position is way too hard and you may damage the 02 sensors wires. Pic 1 shows the red piece of wire which used to be coiled around the blue 02 wire to feed it back up. Pic three shows fiddling with long screwdriver to push blue 02 wire back into its retainer clip on inside of body....very fiddly.
 
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Last edited by speed21; May 21, 2010 at 05:54 PM.
Old May 21, 2010 | 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by speed21
None required to my knowledge. Just use finesse when tightening. The main problem with these is having to remove the y pipe and air box to gain access to the wires anchor clips down the inside of the engine bay. Get some long coated wire and wrap that around the 02 sensor wires and then feed the long wires back up through the passages on reinstall of exhaust, enabling you to pull the 02 sensor wires nicely up through the passages where they go. Trying to fish them back up after the cats and exhaust is in position is way too hard and you may damage the 02 sensors wires. Pic 1 shows the red piece of wire which used to be coiled around the blue 02 wire to feed it back up. Pic three shows fiddling with long screwdriver to push blue 02 wire back into its retainer clip on inside of body....very fiddly.
thanks ya i did not remove the y pipe and air box but was able get the wire out from the top and they are now hanging. not sure i how i am going to get then back in LOL. I am waiting for the half moon tool and some other parts. i cant get the top nuts off, on some the whole stud came out . the after market cparisto has even less clearance then stock where the nuts go to the turbo. I thought you torque the O2 sensors.
 
Old May 21, 2010 | 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cgng30
thanks ya i did not remove the y pipe and air box but was able get the wire out from the top and they are now hanging. not sure i how i am going to get then back in LOL. I am waiting for the half moon tool and some other parts. i cant get the top nuts off, on some the whole stud came out . the after market cparisto has even less clearance then stock where the nuts go to the turbo. I thought you torque the O2 sensors.
There's no way of clipping them back in without removing the y and air box unfortunately . Even then its not so easy. Use a long screwdriver to poke them gently into the clips. I hope you havent damaged the wiring pulling them out of their stays as these sensors are very sensitive.... Make sure you check they are snap locked properly into the mating plugs too or they will work their way loose and then throw a cel. If you get a cel after instal then check the fittings here first....if it doesnt clear you may have damaged the wires...gulp! Having the right bendys will save you from removing the intercoolers. You will need a set of new factory studs and nuts yes. Its to be expected that the studs will get pulled out of the turbo housings as the nuts are one way lock jobs. If the nuts come off be carefull you are not stripping the threads on the studs as sometimes the studs wont come out even with a stud remover....you dont want to snap any. If you damage the thread on the stud and, it doesnt want to come out with a stud remover tool then use a die nut to redress the thread on the studs. New nuts and studs is not an area i would scrimp on. If you can change them do so. You may not need to change all the studs if you get some tough ones but definately renew all the nuts. Use some liquid wrench too on the threads first and on reinstall. Good luck somethings in this job are not for the faint hearted if things dont go to plan .
 

Last edited by speed21; May 21, 2010 at 06:45 PM.
Old May 21, 2010 | 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by speed21
There's no way of clipping them back in without removing the y and air box unfortunately . Even then its not so easy. Use a long screwdriver to poke them gently into the clips. I hope you havent damaged the wiring pulling them out of their stays as these sensors are very sensitive.... Make sure you check they are snap locked properly into the mating plugs too or they will work their way loose and then throw a cel. If you get a cel after instal then check the fittings here first....if it doesnt clear you may have damaged the wires...gulp! Having the right bendys will save you from removing the intercoolers. You will need a set of new factory studs and nuts yes. Its to be expected that the studs will get pulled out of the turbo housings as the nuts are one way lock jobs. If the nuts come off be carefull you are not stripping the threads on the studs as sometimes the studs wont come out even with a stud remover....you dont want to snap any. If you damage the thread on the stud and, it doesnt want to come out with a stud remover tool then use a die nut to redress the thread on the studs. New nuts and studs is not an area i would scrimp on. If you can change them do so. You may not need to change all the studs if you get some tough ones but definately renew all the nuts. Use some liquid wrench too on the threads first and on reinstall. Good luck somethings in this job are not for the faint hearted if things dont go to plan .
thanks for the advise, yes i have ordered all new gasket, studs and bolts. i am little concerned about the o2 sensor wires, how can one damage then unless you cut um or some thing, i know i pulled the wire of the clips in engine bay , they have a plastic protection on it. so i hope i did not damage the wires,
 
Old May 21, 2010 | 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cgng30
thanks for the advise, yes i have ordered all new gasket, studs and bolts. i am little concerned about the o2 sensor wires, how can one damage then unless you cut um or some thing, i know i pulled the wire of the clips in engine bay , they have a plastic protection on it. so i hope i did not damage the wires,
Its whats inside the plastic that youve really got to be very careful with. These things are delicate and really should not be pulled or twisted up in knots. You may be lucky i hope....lets hope so for your sake.

With the bendy spanner, the boomerang shaped one isnt the best and still makes for hard work but see if you can get the right one....you will thankyourself you did.
The car should look like this:- See Pic... and if the boomerang bendy you are waiting on winds up still too hard for you on the top left one then take off the intercoolers and the also side heatsheiding. Bending these up out of the way isnt the best, or having the spanners bang into it will leave the shields battered and bruised.
 
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Old May 23, 2010 | 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by speed21
Its whats inside the plastic that youve really got to be very careful with. These things are delicate and really should not be pulled or twisted up in knots. You may be lucky i hope....lets hope so for your sake.

With the bendy spanner, the boomerang shaped one isnt the best and still makes for hard work but see if you can get the right one....you will thankyourself you did.
The car should look like this:- See Pic... and if the boomerang bendy you are waiting on winds up still too hard for you on the top left one then take off the intercoolers and the also side heatsheiding. Bending these up out of the way isnt the best, or having the spanners bang into it will leave the shields battered and bruised.
i looked for that bendy spanner on the net but could not find any where, do you know who makes it? or where can i get it, whats the actual name for it. i am all about investing money in tools.
 
Old May 23, 2010 | 01:59 PM
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Well, I started mine today, I wish I didn’t

Bumper is off as are the liners and heat shield, nuts are soaking now with PB. I don’t have a 22mm crow's foot or o2 sensor socket so I think I am stopping for today.

Neil Switzer mentions just unclipping the o2 sensor wires and pulling them through with the exhaust. Your write up Speed21 seems to mention that you can't simply do that, that you have to take a lot off to re-route. So it isn't simply unclip, unsnap from their tree and let em drop?
 
Old May 23, 2010 | 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dma550
Well, I started mine today, I wish I didn’t

Bumper is off as are the liners and heat shield, nuts are soaking now with PB. I don’t have a 22mm crow's foot or o2 sensor socket so I think I am stopping for today.

Neil Switzer mentions just unclipping the o2 sensor wires and pulling them through with the exhaust. Your write up Speed21 seems to mention that you can't simply do that, that you have to take a lot off to re-route. So it isn't simply unclip, unsnap from their tree and let em drop?
ya i would recommend like speed 21 to take the cable with the exhaust, there are f clip total , 2 top , and 2 underneath (each side) , and then you got fish the connector from the top and leave the cables hanging, then remove the exhaust. i am waiting for the half moon spanner, to see if i can get nuts out, they are all loose though. ya i have more work because i have to tap the vacuum and power for the ecu.
 
Old May 23, 2010 | 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cgng30
i looked for that bendy spanner on the net but could not find any where, do you know who makes it? or where can i get it, whats the actual name for it. i am all about investing money in tools.
Rather than online i'd try your tool suppliers that service the trade. Often special tools they dont have them over the counter. Most tool suppliers keep the boomerang bendy in stock but dont have the others i found. They have all different catalogues from their own various suppliers and as i found these tools are listed and usually take only a day for them to get them in for you. I found online didnt have them either.

Originally Posted by dma550
Well, I started mine today, I wish I didn’t

Bumper is off as are the liners and heat shield, nuts are soaking now with PB. I don’t have a 22mm crow's foot or o2 sensor socket so I think I am stopping for today.

Neil Switzer mentions just unclipping the o2 sensor wires and pulling them through with the exhaust. Your write up Speed21 seems to mention that you can't simply do that, that you have to take a lot off to re-route. So it isn't simply unclip, unsnap from their tree and let em drop?
Ask "Neil" how does he unclip the sensor wires from the stays withot pulling the wires and more to the point how on earth does he get them back in to the stays (the clips on inside body) without taking Y pipe and airbox out. I'd truly love to know the answer to that one......

Originally Posted by cgng30
ya i would recommend like speed 21 to take the cable with the exhaust, there are f clip total , 2 top , and 2 underneath (each side) , and then you got fish the connector from the top and leave the cables hanging, then remove the exhaust. i am waiting for the half moon spanner, to see if i can get nuts out, they are all loose though. ya i have more work because i have to tap the vacuum and power for the ecu.
The half moon has the clearance to actually go over the top nuts but the limmited travel is the problem. You can only move the spanner a very very small amount each time so it takes forever. I'm pretty sure the half moon still has a major problem with that top left one as the bottom part of the spanner curves into the turbo so you have no leverage and very little to zero movement of the nut. And, once you move the nut and then reposition the spanner again sometimes it wont line up on the nut....tiny increments of travel etc. Thats what i meant by easier to take the I/c's off, as for all the time it takes screwing around persevering with the spanner its eaier to get the access by removing the I/C. See how you go. If you can get the ringy with the bend at the very top then it makes for a much easier and less time consuming job, that i can promise you. If you cant, then you dont have any other option but to either perservere with the half moon on those hard to get to top ones or, remove the LH i/c or, both. It's worse when you have the stud pull out too which will always seems to happen on the worst one for some crazy reason . Its heaven having the right tools .
 
Old May 23, 2010 | 05:48 PM
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I have a cautionary tale to add here. I bought the sears "obstruction" wrenches, which ratchet and have a pivotable and lockabe head. Set in metric was about $80.00.

The problem is the CAT does not allow these thick ring wrenches to fit onto the nut. AND, the cautionary part, if you do use a ratcheting low profile wrench, and ratchet the nut out, the wrench will jamb itself HOPELESSLY in there against the cat due to a captive washer on the nut. I spent about a 1/2 hour easy to remove one wrench stuck in there. I was thinking I was going to have to hackzall it out.

The good part for me is that I have removed all the studs and nuts. 4 came out stud and all, 4 came out nut only. What a b!tch this is for sure, certainly Porsche could have designed something better. It's obvious that this is designed to go on as one piece and never removed!

So, in the end, I did it without the good wrenches like Speed 21 mentioned, but I spent WAY too much time when my fancy wrenches didn’t fit. I hate this job. If I had to do this for a living I would end it all.

Regarding the O2 sensors, mine look a fairy straight shot. I could reach the bottom clips when I was under the car. I could reach the top from inside the engine compartment. Maybe it's easier on a US car versus a ROW?
 
Old May 23, 2010 | 07:48 PM
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[quote=dma550;2850198]I have a cautionary tale to add here. I bought the sears "obstruction" wrenches, which ratchet and have a pivotable and lockabe head. Set in metric was about $80.00.

The problem is the CAT does not allow these thick ring wrenches to fit onto the nut. AND, the cautionary part, if you do use a ratcheting low profile wrench, and ratchet the nut out, the wrench will jamb itself HOPELESSLY in there against the cat due to a captive washer on the nut. I spent about a 1/2 hour easy to remove one wrench stuck in there. I was thinking I was going to have to hackzall it out.

So true. And there can be a few surprises along the way if you havent done this job before .[/quote]


The good part for me is that I have removed all the studs and nuts. 4 came out stud and all, 4 came out nut only. What a b!tch this is for sure, certainly Porsche could have designed something better. It's obvious that this is designed to go on as one piece and never removed!

Again this job can be a real ***** when things dont go to plan or expectation...eg like some of the studs coming out with the nut and others staying in with damaged threads that then threaten to snap them selves off as the stud thread freezes up in the turbo housing end. The perfect world would be they all come out with the nuts or,.. the nuts weren't one way lock nuts thus all the nuts coming off the studs leaving the stud threads intact on the nut end. This is where it always pays to have all the equipment on hand....die nuts, taps, stud remover tool, gaskets,new studs and nuts on hand etc etc just in case things go pair shaped as they usually do.
So, in the end, I did it without the good wrenches like Speed 21 mentioned, but I spent WAY too much time when my fancy wrenches didn’t fit. I hate this job. If I had to do this for a living I would end it all.

No....What this job will teach you is this:- When you get sold one of these systems without the install included no one ever tells you what you are really up against . You also dont get told the precise procedure and this job is very procedural indeed.....an exact sequence of events to follow. Its not a job where you can simply start over here and then go there and do little bits all over the place or you will lose so much time. You also dont get told the exact specialist tools you will need to do the job with out too much fuss and aggro. What you will get told is:- "its no big deal to fit it" and "you'll be right" no worries mate etc..."shouldnt take you more than 3 hours"...and so on. I'm quite sure the shops that sell and install these systems have a huge gin from ear to ear when they have customers tell them they will buy only the system without the install . The first time for us was a surprise too hence me glad to warn those unaware of the facts, not that many ever listen as most can be know it alls... but still...some people do. We also have all the equipment on hand due to our profession and let me tell you we do some pretty amazing jobs here with engines and installs even tho we dont work on Posches as such for a living . I must say the second time around was a breeze and was good fun in a way and i would happily do this job with pleasure anytime now as i know exactly how its done . Access is everything so dont be scared of having to take things off to save time because you wont save time....just torture yourself.
Mind you I certainly wouldnt like to do this job without a hoist or at home .
Regarding the O2 sensors, mine look a fairy straight shot. I could reach the bottom clips when I was under the car. I could reach the top from inside the engine compartment. Maybe it's easier on a US car versus a ROW?
You must have very small hands...no offense intended . The Aus US cars would be the identical...same air boxes etc. When we were doing this 02 wire clip part I recall us saying to one another how great it would be if you could hire pixies. I think you perhaps could do it without the removal of y pipe and airbox if you had the system resting on a stage that you could vary the height in increments but even so it would have its moments as the system is heavy and there is minimal room when getting it in position....the length of the 02 wires are also no long enough either so as the sytem would have to be right up in position to finish the clipping of the wires in the stays or you'd end up pulling them back out or damaging the wires when trying to retrieve them from the engine bay end. We tried putting the wires in the body stays from undereath and couldnt do it as the system blocked us .
The right hand side stay is the worst to access too as there are more obstacles, the left hand not is not as bad....but still, i would advise removing the Y and Airbox....again access is everything here. Incidentally my P dealer has also since told me thats exactly how they do it too .

BTW have you seen fabspeeds instructions for this job online? They instruct do this install without taking even the bumper bar off !! I'm not saying you couldnt do it, but to me thats like finding the hardest possible way of doing this job and then double/triple checking just to make absolutely sure you are in fact actually doing it the hardest possible way imaginable.....i mean..why would you? Try getting the stock muffler off with out the bumper off.....hell!!


As i've said....ACCESS is EVERYTHING!!
 

Last edited by speed21; May 23, 2010 at 08:19 PM.
Old May 23, 2010 | 10:02 PM
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I've done it several times now, on my own car and others, I've never actually taken the bumper or airbox off. I suppose it might yield better access, but I personally haven found it necessary. The most important tool is the 4" 13mm hand wrench with ratchet end by craftsman, easily does all 4 turbo stud nuts. GL and have fun...take your time. the biggest mistake is forcing it and snapping the turbo studs, be careful.
 
Old May 23, 2010 | 10:11 PM
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TT, is this the one? Now that I have mine off I'm pretty fearful about having to put them back!

http://www.amazon.com/Wrench-9513-St...4674179&sr=1-2
 


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