robin/matt I live in trumbull i would be more willing to let you guys use my car for some runs

 

tjclay its not a matter of standing by anyone, taking sides or getting overly caught up with ego's. That is not what this thread is about at all however your post indicates you have totally missed the point, or should i correctly say a number of points.

I didnt realise this was a war between those very few with this APR tune and the majority that have taken different tune directions. No non APR tune owner has yet specifically said the APR tune is rubbish. The APR tune is obviously a powerful tune particularly regarding the torque levels going by all accounts so far.

What is being questioned here is :

1) The very obvious discrepancy between APRs/GMP's boost claims of 20lbs max vs Skandalis's boost claim of 1 bar max.

2) APR claiming to be the best 997tt tuner in the business.

3) Whether APR's tune set up is suitable as a stage 1 tune given a heavier clutch is required to get the best of it.

4) Whether the tune is also suitable for providing durabiliy of other engine components such as stock turbo chargers over the longer term.

One thing that appears to have been totally overlooked here is that all other stage 1 tunes have been set up to provide sub 800nms torque levels yet provide much the same kw of @400. This is obviously to allow the purchaser of the tune use of their car without being immediately subjected to further expenses such as replacing the stock clutch etc.
Incidentally these "other tunes" also all provide further stages of development to those willing to replace these "other components" with the full knowledge that further expense is required to maintain reliability of their car to withstand the additional torques and Hp's generated along the way by the tunes higher HP/Torque setting.
It would appear with APR's tune the stock clutch evidently has no hope of coping with this additional torque so it is reasonable to say APR hasnt given sufficient consideration in the course of setting the tune up therefore, the tune is somewhat "questionable" particularly where APR have stated they are the best tuner with superior tuning techniques for the 997tt. One would have reasonably thought APR would have accomodated for the general durability of the car in stock trim in the course of setting up this tune or, at least provided a warning that the tune needs a stage 2 clutch to go with it, packaging it accordingly at a price.

From the above 4 questions I believe most have been now generally answered with exception of question 1 and once we have the facts on that i will give a summary of closure on how I see it.
Dyno reports and acceleration stats will also aid here in finalising.

Regardless of the outcome of my future summary I will always respect the opinions of others provided they are based on facts and not purely emotion and, will welcome any responses and comments and critisism .

+1 leousm and, yes we are patiently waiting.

So now its 1, 1.2 or 1.3 bar Skandalis? Are you warming us up for something different?
If so... no worries . One way or the other Ill be just satisfied to finally have some facts to consider .
I stated many posts back now that the stock gauge will only ever show 1 bar regardless of how much boost you are generating. Sports C mode can show up to 1.2 only but that may well not apply to APR's tune settings so it may not register that on the cars gauge.
You said your durametric data log and mechanical gauge only ever showed 1 bar max. This didnt add up. But you now say "can go higher"? This is precisely why ive been asking for the durametric data log as APR and GMP have said the tune has 20lbs max boost. I have no problems if your data log now shows @20lbs. At least that will give those here that have questioneyour 1 bar claim a logical explanation to your APR tune's power, and your fast acceleration times.

 

speed21...
you made me very happy that you wont have a problem if my logs are over 1bar... that was a relief for me...
its good to have another member here with APr tune that sees the same boost as me,and also is faster than other 997TT cars,as mine...Finally i dont expect you to understand the way APR flash operates,since you did not understand my PM regarding start up noise...I really do not know how many times should i write boost is 1bar to stop questioning yourself.I believe i should write it everyday...at least two times...

 

This is getting dizzying...hey Skand, who is the "other" member here that you are referring to, tclayj? He's got no proof.

 

I will have dyno results from another car and trap times this week for you guys.

 

ARone please give me a call when you get this 888 488 2028 EXT 257 or shoot me an email @ mkrisel@gmpperformance.com.


I would love to hook up with you while I'm up there.

 

Well hopefully I can help bring more information and data from the APR software to the community and shed some light on the subject so more 997 owners will consider.

I understand that you, and others would like to be associated with a more prestigious line of vehicles.. but technically 2 of those makes you just listed are VW's. VW/Audi is among the best manufacturers in the world and not to mention the fact that Porsche is in the same family. So its not quite the same as the Hyundai analogy. And at the same token.. other tuners may make tunes for more high end cars.. but do they tune and race cars in the Grand-Am sports car series? I personally think that's a bit more impressive and convincing of their abilities then someone who has a tune for a few exotics.

Its probable that other dedicated Porsche tuners spend more time on Porsche in general making solid tunes.. But for this particular 997TT tune, APR personally owned a 997TT and I know they went full force on this one in time and resources. So for this particular model, that is a non-issue.

Don't take this the wrong way, the other tuners in the market are great as well. In fact, I have EPL on my 996. I just really wanted to stress the fact that APR is not some Mickey Mouse company, and their 997 tune was far from neglected in the development department.

 

Well said..........

 

matt, pm'ed

 

What you are saying is all greek to me Skand. Totally confusing but anyway!

Thanks Matthew.

Is it at all possible for you to have a duramtric data log done at the same time to show the boost at WOT? A dyno may be a great time and place to do this test. Please advise. I think we are going to need more than Skand's data log at this stage in the game. Too much has gone on with this to be able to take the word of just one person.

Accepted. But in saying that Chris i doubt anyone here thinks they are a Mickey Mouse company....instead just a company with expertise on tuning VW's and Audi"s....and, one very shy on facts surrounding their "one and only 997tt tune"....relying purely on fanciful claims and an unusually high price tag to convince the market.

 

Bob,

I posted a dyno of the stock programming with 100 octane and tubi race exhaust. I don't remember the exhaust numbers but please refer to the first page.

Friday I have gentleman coming in, he is on this board, he currently has a Speedart exhaust with 200 cell cats. We will be measuring this car with 93 fuel with stock programming and APR's 93 Performance programming (chipped mode)

Stay tuned for this as I'm equally anxious to see how much adding 200cell cats and lowering the octane level does on the dyno even though my personal thought on the subject that "speed times" are much better way to see how fast a car really is because that's exactly where most people drive their cars.

 

I asked this question as well to Chris @ 3sx, I seem to be having a brain fart right now as I try to recall our conversation as we talked about a lot of things while I was there as I had several questions regarding the dyno as I had never heard of it until that day. He had touched on a few things regarding the dyno and the car and air flow but I can't recall specifics.

I just called and left him a voicemail at about 215pm today. I will follow up with an email here in a few as well.

 

You keep bringing Skandalis in here because all he reads is 1 bar. His car clearly puts out more than 1bar to achieve the power APR suggests. You also seem to have a rebuttal for every answer keith gives which are basically an excuse for you not wanting to try the software which is FREE by the way. I'm also starting to wonder why your responding the way you are about APR's software when you clearly have stated that you have ZERO interest in running APR software.

For every reason you have given me for not wanting to try the APR software I have given you a legitimate answer that alleviates all your concerns.

 

Bogg and everyone else,

I can't answer why his car is reading only 1 bar. What I can say is that I will be testing a US sold car on US soil with US fuel and these are the levels and scenarios I have access to.


Cars will be listed from fastest to slowest.

997TT APR, TUBI RACE, 100 fuel
Will test trap times in stock mode.
Will test trap times in 93 mode.
Will test traimes in 100 mode.

997TT APR, Speedart 200Cell cats, 93 Fuel
Will test in stock mode.
Will test in 93 mode.

997TT Cab, APR, Stock Exhaust, 93 Fuel
Will test in stock mode.
Will test in 93 mode.


I think for now we should just let skandalis just enjoy his car. I'm sure everyone cares more about a car here on US soil that was sold and registered here. Would you all agree?

 

Speed21 again you keep bringing up another rebuttal about the price, for those who dont know by now we are offering a group rate for $2500 or you can try it free for 6 hours. If you can't tell in 6 hours or pay for it and try it for 30 days to see if you like it or not then nothing will satisfy your needs.

Is there anything I can do to atleast get you to try this darn software for a minute?

Perhaps you may have a point and that APR should offer a detuned version of what they have right now to make the clutch last longer. Or perhaps most just need to inspect their clutches before they purchase a used car. TJclay is the only person I know who has blown out his clutch running APR software.

Sorry that is wrong.

There are two.

The clients car I dyno'd last week who runs nothing short of 100 fuel. He burnt his clutch out because he was going to the dragstrip once a month for 3 or 4 months straight doing 4 or 5 passes each event. Sometimes more when he rents the track out himself. The stock clutch is not made to drag race period even at stock power levels. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. Thats actually pretty impressive of the stock clutch.

Number two is TJCLAY and he purchased a used 997T so we have to throw him out because we have no way of knowing the status of his clutch at the time of purchase.

All this was explained to you speed21 in our original PM conversations before you purchased the promotive tune.


Again this goes out to everyone who wants to try the APR software, if your not happy with the results I will flash your car back to stock and purchase another brand of your choice or give you your money back 100%. No one else offers this type of service.