Ok TT Dude let me go over this one more time.

I have NOT TESTED 30-100 mph yet so again I ask you how has it failed if I haven't attempted it yet?

I simply asked who ever was asking me to do this test they had originally asked me to do a 3rd gear pull 30-100 to avoid shifting. I can do this but I dont see the point as it would be quicker starting in second gear. I don't know maybe im confused at what I was being asked. If you want me to start in 3rd I will but in all 997t cars chipped or not takes forever from 2000 to 3000 rpms. Now a second gear start at 30mph going through 3rd to 100 mph would be wicked fast.

But whatever, you guys tell me what you want me to do and I will do it.

 

From your earlier description I inferred that you did try and the car responded so poorly that it wasn't worth recording a time. So what speed range would you feel comfortable measuring in 3rd gear if not 30-100, how about 40,45,50-100? Same question for 4th, 60-130 ok? Or would you like to start somewhere else, 65,70-130? Note: on the official 6speed 60-130 list there are several cars that posted 60-130 4th gear, 0 shifts.

 

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason for doing a 30-100 in a single gear is to remove the shifting from the equation. Regardless of if you're starting at 2000 RPM and bogging a bit at the start, it's just a way of equalizing runs from one car and driver to another. If you don't have to shift at all, then it's just a simple matter of mashing the pedal down and hanging on. That way someone can't say "well you're an F1 race driver so you shift much faster than my great-grandmother when she tested my car with her VBOX." Plus it takes into consideration low-end torque and spool characteristics.

I think where Matthew was getting hung up is that staying in just one gear doesn't produce the fastest times. But that is beside the point as I mentioned above, it's just a way of standardizing the run.

In summary, just do runs both ways.

 

It's how ttdude did it in his graph that he provided. Therefore, if Matthew did the same method then the results can be directly compared without worrying about shift times. Plus, it will show if there is an advantage to the upgraded vtgs (as far as low end torque goes).

 

Completely agree. I chose 30-100 to cover the entire range, not necessarily worrying about times since there is no other official (or non-official) time to compare it to. If I wanted to maximize accel at 30mph, I would be in 1st so I don't know what Matt is talking about.

 

Why would i bother when APR and Matthew have both clearly stated the APR tune specifications regarding boost, functionality and countries. Its only your car that has these differences with APR's own tune spec so thats in your interest to check with them...not mine. You can let us all know if they happen to find out why yours is so different from what they sell though.

And "quit creating stories"?? You're the expert there skandalis....I couldn't hope to compete . Ive only always dealt with the what you APR and GMP have provided, so if that is all rubbish then please say so.

What it all boils down to is its either you that are making it up or they are. You both cant be right.

Even APR and GMP are keeping a safe distance from your version of their one and only APR tune spec, or havent you noticed?
Its obvious they just dont want to know about it and you can hardly blame them given such huge disparity . Its not a good look for you or them.

So by you going solo with this unique story you've basically gone and blown your credibility big time Skandalis so how you can ever recover it now is your problem. Dont blame me for that one thanks.

The result of all this is it throws a dark cloud over (all) your claims....present and future.

On my times. I dont have any. Im very happy with the way my car goes so running around trying to prove im the fastest on my tiny little patch of dirt is of little interest to me really. If all youve got to hang onto is a time and nothing else thats a sad existance imo. What matters to me though is the reliabilty of my car with the tune and thankfully there are enough users out there with Protomotive to confirm i'm standing on safe ground .

 

Agree with you tclay that quality data and user feedack is way better than any self indulgent marketing claims for sure. And im not saying APR is the worst either....just that it hasn't got much to go by other than its own marketing waffle, a user with some rather flamboyant and conflicting claims and, a few silent users. They (APR) can do better if they try.

[quote=GMP - Matthew;2877878]Its not about whose product is better. Its about which set up is best for the customers needs and driving habits. quote]

Well to a degree you are correct but one thing feeds off the other. If a product is good, plenty use it and talk about it.

And a truly great product is one that not only takes the customers needs and driving habits in to consideration but also, and more importantly, the car itself.....ensuring there is a true synergy.

 

Speed21 we are not shying away from skandalis at all. I truly hope APR's times are that fast. Has skandalis tried switching from bar to psi?

Also confirming if he has APR software is easy as it might be possible that he doesn't have APR software, he can simply go to his nearest APR dealer in Greece, take 5 minutes to hook the cables up and log in to DPP. The first thing APR's DPP software does is identify the ECU and it will say word for word either APR DATA FOUND! or APR DATA NOT FOUND! .......

The other thing you can do with out going to an APR dealer is see if you are able to change programs. if your gas light flashes out while attempting to change programs then you have APR software. The only thing there is that if your not the original owner of the car when it was flashed, and you dont have any paperwork that says what order the programs are in and what programs you have then you will have to go back to the APR dealer and find out in what order the programs are in.

 

[quote=speed21;2878929]Agree with you tclay that quality data and user feedack is way better than any self indulgent marketing claims for sure. And im not saying APR is the worst either....just that it hasn't got much to go by other than its own marketing waffle, a user with some rather flamboyant and conflicting claims and, a few silent users. They (APR) can do better if they try.

Yes but the APR software could be a great product, but if your looking for 800hp and all top end power then the APR software is not for you. Doesn't mean that the APR product is terrible its just not for you.

I want this thread to show people two things and hopefully with our street tests to come "hopefully" they will show

A- APR software with any 200 cell or race exhaust is more power ful and smoother than any other tuners exhaust and software upgrade package, and perhaps just maybe keep up with some of the leading competitors cars with upgraded turbos.

We have already proven in a quarter mile that APR software combined with exhaust is just as fast as some of promotives cars with upgraded turbos and you have a tip tronic 997TT you can get in the mid 10 second range consistantly with stock exhaust and 100 octane and stock wheels and street tires.

We already know that there aren't any long term driveability issues. Yes the clutch disc from the factory can't handle the power but the stock clutch disc can't even handle the stock power and torque of the car either. If you ask any tuner out there that's tuning these car's whats the most common thing they hear back from their customers is that their clutch is slipping with in weeks if not months of any type of software upgrade. The stock clutch in these cars is simply terrible. It was made for lollygagging around and not ment for agressive driving at all even under stock settings.

 

I don't know how much difference 100 octane gas makes but can't wait to see what the numbers are on pump gas.

It makes sense that APR can make lots of power/torque with 18-20 psi boost but it doesn't make sense that Skand can get 6.48 60-130 on 1 bar (roughly 15psi) of boost, and he's adamant it is only 1 bar based on piwis and datalogging.

 

Speed 21,
it is obvious that you dont like the time 6,48 that my car did as listed on the official verified 60-130 thread...If you werent interested about fast times,you wouldnt have modded your car and it would be stock right now...
So you care about fast times and thats the purpose of this thread...We are talking about fast cars and how faster they might be with reflashed ECU...Official times are there and I wonder if any 997TT with stock turbos will ever pass my time...That shows how APR software performs...How your car feels,sounds,accelerates has no real meaning...Vbox is the judge...
P.S. in order to identify why above 130-140mph 996 was way faster than 997TT I thought a pair of intercoolers might help...I had AP coolers in my 996TT and I saw difference in our hot climate here...Has any see any differences with coolers in 997TT?

 

Yeah something is not right there. Just for good measure I will check to see what our car does in the stock file as far as boost pressure it just to see what the difference in boost is.

I dont know if 18-20 psi is a lot for these turbos or not as I drive turbo charged VW's primarily so I know more about the 1.8T and 2.0T and 2.7T set ups because they all run the same K03 type turbo and every car I've chipped with APR in the VW/Audi range accelerates just like the 997TT which is very very smooth. Power band is obviously different as those cars are made to build boost at 2500 rpms not 3500 but none of their cars surge or spike at all. Not sure how else to put it except that the software is identical to the oem programming as far as smoothness is. I have heard that other people have tried other tuners here in the US and the power surges, it comes on hard then drops then comes back then drops while accelerating like almost as if a car had a vacuum leak or a pinched DV hose. The guys at 3sx told me had I went in there asking them if they could write me a better program than the APR we had in there instead of asking for a few dyno runs they would have said have a nice day and sent us home.

FYI I should be flashing a 997TT with 93 today. Going to let him enjoy it for the weekend. Then borrow it hopefully Monday for a few dyno runs. If I cant get the car monday it will have to wait till Wednesday as I'm flying up Monday night to CT and flying back Wednesday Morning. While I'm in CT I have another car to flash. He has upgraded VTG's we are not sure how the car will perform but if his upgraded VTG's work in everyway like the factory ones do then his larger compressors and new wheels shouldn't matter as the software should only pull the boost pressure (18-20) it was designed to do.

For example,

I have used to have a GTI 2003 with 1.8T engine. I had the K03 turbo upgraded to the K04 which was essentially the same as the K04 with a larger compressor so it could build slightly more psi but more importantly hold it all the way to redline. The K03 would just run out of ***** way before redline because its more of an economy turbo charger. Made for lowend power. Anyways my point being is that I could run the APR Software for the stock K03 turbo with a K04 in the car and it would run no differently which is what I'm hoping the 997TT will do in CT on Tuesday with teh upgraded VTG's.

 

Every tuner I know will tell you that the tuning maps are different for upgraded vtgs. I think you are wasting your time installing a "stage 2" APR tune on a car with upgraded turbos. The car will perform much worse than the tune (Softronic?) it currently has for the upgraded vtg system. I just don't see the value in doing something like this. A Porsche is not a VW.

 

TTDude, I am very well aware that Porsche is not VW, I know Porsche's are not VW's , but a VTG turbo is a VTG turbo as long as there are no mechanical differences meaning they both create boost the same way just one being able to push more than the other then it should run fine. The client wants us to trial flash it and see what happens. The stock file is better than what he has in there right now. And yes he was running softronic.

 

There is something seriously wrong since the stock file should not run better than a tuned Softronic file for an upgraded vtg turbo set-up. If this is the case, then the APR file might also run better but not for the right reasons. It's all relative. You've been saying for weeks now that you're going to post times for a 6speed. Are you ever going to show us the goods?