Paul,
Highly recommend the gt3 LCAs, easy bolt on.
c

 

Had the 3 LFC"s fitted in pre delivery prior to me taking delivery actually. Only problem was the dealer didn't have much expertise in alignments beyond the stock settings. I hear there a few good sway combos that can also improve things as well....the rear one in particular. Have you had your sways changed yet?

 

Yep, gmg sways/springs/toes/bones, and now gt3 LCAs. I use 1-2-3 degree shims as required. In hindsight, the dog bones are not required on a street car, as one can obtain -2.5 camber in the rear in stock configuration with some toe links. The bones do make alignment a snap. The front gt3LCAs allow massive negative camber. Tarret actually makes a nice adapter that allows the use of OEM 996 gt3 arms with litronic bracket.
I think a killer setup for these cars consists of springs, sways, toe links and LCAs. that is a very tough, reliable combo to beat.

 

FWIW the MPSC (N) is an optional tire on all RoW Turbos.

 

Paul, I would second this, in particular the rear toe link; and springs mean stiffer springs, whether by GMG springs here or by coilover. The soft spring of the stock Turbo causes uncontrolled motion in the rear, both lateral and vertical. There is a video by GMG that shows this that unfortunately I can't seem to find now, but very interesting: they put a video camera on the rear end and you could see a vigorous, and significant, mambo dancing party back there.

Regarding control link, I don't have it yet but always am thinking about it. Among the various links/bushing that you could "upgrade," this component alone receives near universal recommendation from the tuners I've talked to.

 

>>>>>
Needless to say P never makes any successor worse. As i also said, just wait for 991tt and i will be hearing how bad .2tt is too. Then we will all be crying in our soup.....modded suspension or not .
>>>>>>>>

Your point about every Porsche being better than last gen is of course correct (most of the times at least, for example possible exception: engine change of 997.2 Turbo). However, IMHO it is important to ask what it is that was improved. Knowing this will tell you what the engineers feel the weak points were.
As an example, the GT2 over GT3 upgrade (GT2 was released after GT3 and unlike previous GT class, 997 GT2 is different from 997 GT3 - anyone corrects me as needed): geometry change in the front suspension, involving lowering of a suspension setting AFAIK.
In contrast, let's look at 997.2 Turbo versus 997.2 Turbo: stiffer spring, stiffer bar, stiffer rear bushing. This is particularly telling, considering the engine of 997.2 Turbo weighs less than that of 997.1. What that signifies to me is that the correction is quite consistent with the observation: They went overboard with 997.1 Turbo and made it too soft, relatively -- that is, for the "average" sports car drivers out there. A test drive of 997.2 Turbo will indeed prove the point: It *is* a stiffer car, with much different PASM Firm sensation, much less jiterry, much less harsh.

BTW, I know "you know" and will do what's best, just discussing because of the many interesting points being brought up. I hope you don't mind.

 

So Chris are you using the 996 3 LFCA with tarrets or 997 3 LFCA's? Also how's your car riding with the springs compared to stock. Out of 10 how would you rate it against the stock coils...in normal and sports...ridewise. I guess you have a compromised camber setting to accommodate for street and track...if so what neg are you running f and r? Also where did you buy your gmg set up? Maybe pm me on that if you like.
p.

edit. Forgot to ask what are the changes to ride height with GMG springs?

 

I'm guessing the gmg springs offer a more forgiving ride vs the Bilstein coil overs so they may be worth consideration. Don't get me wrong Can, I'm sure your car is a really nice set up for hard and fast driving but my problem is I like some comfort these days to make the majority of street driving I'm doing more pleasant. Ive been ther done that with the coilovers onthe street and its a love hate relationship. One day you love em...next day you hate them. Probably more hate than love in honesty. Maybe the .2 suspension kit could well be an option as well....that is if it fits. It's not that I'm not enjoying my car the way it's current set up and whilst I agree with you it could be made to handle better on that really is only ever going to get advantaged on a circuit and the way I've been over the last 12 months I haven't had much time for that unfortunately. This year I'm hoping to change things tho...time permitting and all....get right back into it again IYKWIM. I do miss the release a regular track day can bring....especially with the crazy attitude the cops have developed over this way of late with their addiction to revenue raising by busting everyone for doing 1kph over the limit. So my mind remains open..P.
But...i dont want to go back to jiggysville.

 

Im fully ofay with the changes that occurred with .2. And yes they were all excellent improvements....if not forced by GTR's presence on the scene. I think P owners owe thanks to GR in that respect. P now has an incentive. Jury is still out on the DFI engine but im sure as time progresses more info will come out to either confirm or allay any fears. P isnt going bck to the .1 mezger thats pretty obvious.

And no. I dont mind. Can you should know by now that im up to it so please don't sweat it. Ill let you know if ever im not.....and in a nice way.

And yes...i know. But i also know that the car is best kept for what it was essentially designed for....DD use. Thats the big difference between a P and many exotics that are really best kept as weekend warriors.
P.

 

Paul, I'll pm you today.
c

 

Paul, I think you're on the right track! The main idea that I would like to share, not for you only, but for other "Porsche nuts" who are new to the Turbo, is that if you feel there is something wrong, something soft about the stock Turbo, you're not alone.

Whether the solution is Bilstein, KW, GMG lowering springs, it doesn't matter - there are many ways to skin the cat. Bottom line is that if you've done it right, the car will be the epitome of a daily driver and you'll love it and never think about 991.

I have a question for you: Is it right the Turbo is relatively outrageously expensive in Australia? In other words, you have to be filthy rich to own a Turbo there, compared to the US?

 

I still say the turbo can only be found a little soft during certain on the limit driving situations but most DD driving situations can be accommodated for with the stock set up. If there are frequent track days involved during the course of ownership then I would agree certain changes could/should be made to enhance the track experience...but again not to the degree it destroys the cars DD usability. To do that you may as well but a GT2/3 and be done with it as a weekend warrior.

Can I agree a few subtle changes could be made to enhance the DD experience for when certain opportunities present but again not at the expense of destroying the ride and comfort levels, as that (imo) would defeat the purpose this car was essentially designed for. That's where cars like GT2 and GT3 come into play but in saying that both of those cars' suspension set ups are very well resolved (a credit to P) and provide a better feel and comfort than any out of the box bolt on Bilstein coil over set up. Again Porsche has demonstrated its expertise providing an acceptable blend of handling and comfort even if focused more toward high performance track use than street cruiser for its GT range. Horses for courses as they say. Im not going to go on and on about how .2 is distinctly better than .1 as i've gone over that and, the same argument will also undoubtedly apply to the next and, the next (infinity) 911turbo model. Hopefully GTR will continue keeping the wood on them from the sidelines too. That may also bring about the need for more realistic pricing particularly out here. A new GTR35 costs @ 160K on road....a new PT starts at 420K on road.

At over 420,000 for a new 911T, and with the USD currently at a very favourable 1 to 1 with the Aussie dollar it (unfortunately) goes without saying you do need serious coin to be able to own one of these cars. When i think of what i paid for mine i could own two brand new .2tts' and have enough change to go out on a modding spree for both of them. The problem for many of us Aussies, even though some of us are fortunate enough to have the coin (and then some much more than others again) it doesnt mean we have unlimited funds to keep throwing at these cars on mods in the same usual mannner many of you guys do but thats mainly because we've already been gutted so badly at the sale register.....and we would never see it back on resale either. Resale values (on stock cars) are somewhat on parody to what you guys see, but have a much higher $ hit rate out here. So for eg if you pay 160 in the US and sell for 70 4 years on then you only do 90. Now if we buy for 420 we may be lucky to see 190 in 4 years so the $ hit is way higher (230K). Yes you guys are very fortunate with your car prices....mod selections, price of performance parts, fitting and performance shops and...expertise etc etc. That why Aussies often get their performance parts and advice from the states as you have a wealth of knowledge over there....along with more sensibly priced items. The other thing is when you mod a car heavily or far enough off standard over here it invariably kills its resale. Used P car buyers over this way like to think they are buying a virgin and then pay nothing for it.

 

$420,000? Astounding. Simply astounding. I for sure cannot afford such pricing.
I assume they don't allow buying used US cars then import to Australia?

 

Interesting read on the 996tt board...tho it may not apply to the 997....
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...revisited.html

 

People are fairly well used to it over here Can. A lot of the increase in price has come about due to government greed from import duties, luxury car tax and stamp duties. Your cars are also left hand drive plus anything that hasn't been locally sold and locally complied is worth a lot less to those in the market for these cars.

Excellent spot Doug!!! And a VERY interesting read indeed particularly if it applies to 997tt as if it does it basically nulifies the lowering aspect that many take as one of the key benefits of having these set ups. Its quite astonishing that many installlers could possibly be unaware of the correct installation requirements set by Bilstein or, are aware and are just ignoring them for the sake of providing a lower look to satisfy customers particular likes?? It certainly makes sense that once you move the shock travel out of the manufacturers designated "sweet spot" or, move the travel range out of the correct designated sweet spot toward either the inner or outer extremity of its designed travel range (sweet spot) position, the shocks ability to function correctly would have to become compromised in some way. It would be very interesting to see exactly how Porsche has managed to lower the ride height of the GT2/3 cars whilst retaining correct suspension geometry and shock travel....so the shock is stroking exactly in the sweet spot area designated by the manufacturer.

Can, if Bilsteins instructions are correct and also apply to the 997tt Kit then this discussion is opening up tin of worms

One way to check would be by doing a comparison between the bilstein coil over installed in say a 20mm lowered position setting (which emulates the GT car look) and the GT2/3 coiler setup to see if there are any differences anywhere. If nothing is visibly noticeable then perhaps there is a difference in the actual shockys in terms of travel and sweet spot??

Incidentally, I have heard and read previously on forums that the fitment of lowering springs onto stock pasm shocks can/has/will cause premature shock failure and, check warning lights to trigger. Whilst that may well more so apply to the "softer" lowering springs that allow the shock to overly compress the recommended depth of its travel allowance, firmer or stiffer lowering springs would also still be having the stock shock travel operating outside of its designated sweet spot. It would be good to hear from some of the more expert installers to get their thoughts and understanding on this....also from the coil manufacturers that design and sell theses lowering springs. I cant imagine Bilstein has made such a point of this particular height requirement in their installation instructions simply for the fun of it.

Edit: I just see now over on the 996tt thread where a member has said it doesnt apply to 997tt and a lowering of 20mm is permitted by Bilstein.....although i'd want that in writing from Bilstein to be sure.
Above may not apply..