I was a Porsche owner long ago (1986-1991) when I had my 911SC and that car was always a joy to drive and gave me many thrilling weekend blasts along the coastline. But alas I got married and sold it (big mistake on both accounts!). Anyway, been looking to get back into the Porsche family again and a 997.1 Turbo has been the targeted choice.

I decided to look at the Turbo vs. the Carrera S straight away because I have been a liter bike sport rider for the last 12 years and frankly, I am used to Formula One level acceleration. So I drove a 2007 Turbo Tiptronic today and was VERY underwhelmed. I mean I was expecting this monster of a car and it was just ho-hum. I then engaged the sport mode as it had the sports chrono package and it was not any better.

I asked the sales guy riding with me if the acceleration felt normal to him and he said yes, and that the feel of speed is deceiving in these cars so that you are going much faster than you think. Maybe so, but the personality and connectedness to the car was just not there for me. I hate to tell people that I drove a 997 Turbo and I thought it was kinda slow because they may think I'm trying to be a pompous a-hole or something, but its just the impression I got from the car.

I decided to drive a Tiptronic first because I have read that they are actually faster than the manuals through the 1/4 mile, but after driving one I think the auto also strips the car of most of its soul. I definitely need to drive a manual to get a balanced view. The sales guy understood what I was saying and brought out a 2008 Carrera S manual and we went for a ride. That car was so much more fun and I felt totally connected and "tuned into" it compared to the Turbo. The only reasons I didn't buy the "S" right there is because it had the Cocoa interior that I didn't like and I need to drive a manual Turbo before I decide which way to go.

Anybody have a similar experience? Are the Tiptronic Turbos really that sedated and disconnecting to the driver compared to the manuals? I was really shocked and disappointed by the whole thing.

 

I had a similar experience the first time I drove a manual 997.1 TT. Maybe I was expecting too much, or gun shy driving more conservative than normal, or maybe the car had a bad tune, because the second time I drove one (a different car - but still a stock 997.1 manual TT), I was completely blown away. To this day - I still think about that first test drive - how it was not what I was expecting at all - and how it was not what I currently am experiencing now with my TT.
Give the TT another drive (either 6sp or TIP) - and I think you will have a completely different experience like I did.

 

You will not be able to find a street-legal car capable of matching the agility and acceleration of a crotch rocket, so take a deep breath.

When I drove my '09 for the first time it felt quick but not exhilarating. Maybe because I haven't had a car with less than 500hp since 2006. I guess you could say I expected more out of the almighty 911 turbo. Then I updated the software and the car put down 580lb-tq (at the wheels) at about 4,000 rpm. It fixed things for about a year. Now I feel like it could use a little more power... speed is an unfortunate untreatable addiction.

 

Yeah, the more I think about it, I think the car had a bad tune or some service issue. I was driving pretty conservative for the first 5 minutes just getting familiar with the car, but then I really got after it both on the interstate (passing maneuvers) and out of the apex of several increasing & decreasing radius sweepers. The engine just felt restricted or like the ECU was pulling timing to me. There is just no way there was nearly 500 HP/TQ going on there.

But the sales guy said it felt normal to him and their service dept had just gone through the car top to bottom, but it felt like it was in limp mode or something? All I can say is when a guy has more fun driving a Carrera S than a Turbo, something is rotten in Stuttgart. I will be looking for more 6M Turbos to drive to sort this mystery out once and for all.

 

So true. G forces are like a drug. I mean once your brain builds a "tolerance" to what a 440 pound machine with 180HP feels like, driving a normal sports car is pretty much like taking a Vicodin after mainlining heroin for years. That weak sheit just ain't gonna cut it anymore.

But it sure is fun (and expensive) trying to get there isn't it? I can see already that any car I buy is going to get a 750HP power package/tune right away. I mean if I can pick up a clean example for about $80K, that leaves a pretty good chunk of change to bring the car up to the next level where it needs to be.

 

I have a 997.2 carerra S PDK and a heavily modded 997.1 Turbo.

The stock Turbo Tip can be very quiet and as you say "anemic" . In contrast a PDK turboS or a heavily modified manual 997.1tt are completely different types of cars .
It took a lot of time and expense to make a 997.1 Turbo anything near what you are describing .

The 997S may have felt like more fun and for the price it does offer a lot of daily driving fun but it will never be a Turbo in any straight line run. In tight corners it is light and nimble whreas the turbo is heavy (AWD) . The throttle is more precise .
BUT --the 997S will NEVER be a GT3 . So it's well rounded ability makes it practical but it's not greatness . It's the jock of all but the master of none .

You want speed .. either a PDK Turbo or a modded 997.1tt (manual)
You want agility .. Gt3
You want practical - 997S
You want everything -- Get both a Gt3 and a Turbo S

I sometimes wish I had bought the Gt3 instead of my 997.2S . I never doubted my Turbo. The discounts in 2009 were just too good and PDK was new (and quite incredible BTW) and I am not a track driver .

Hope this helps .. Good luck.

 

^^^^Larry great post and I agree on all points.
A Turbo plus a GT3 would be my definition of a dream garage too.

To OP: I've never driven a Tiptronic Turbo so really don't know, but I believe your impression is more related to the manual vs. automatic thing and you're (like me) a manual die-hard at heart. A Carrera S is a great great car but simply put, not in the same class as a Turbo, especially when it comes to acceleration, where it's not even remotely close.
Nothing compares to your sport bike though! Using a sport bike's acceleration as reference surely will lead to disappointment as no car could match that. Good luck and have fun with your manual Turbo test drive.

 

Thanks Can --

To the OP -
Just an additional note .. I had saved this to my favorites . It's a straight line of the two cars you have driven (997.1tt Tiptronic and 997S manual)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_kfa...rom=PL&index=6

 

My first test drive was on a tiptronic and I echo OP's comments. Granted I wasn't really pushing the car but it just felt unresponsive. Perhaps I should have turned on the sport mode.

 

We can take that "anemic" tiptronic 997TT and turn it into a low 10 second (even a 9 second) street car that traps nearly 140mph...

Contact me for more information...

 

I have an 07 TT tip with approximate. 42K miles on her. I concur with your initial perception regarding the flat power band. However, you, like 99% of the testers probably didn't drive the car with the sport button on AND the tranny in manual. Everyday I get in my steed and I push the sport button and drive in manual. Respectfully, it's just a different level of beast. To the uninitiated, particularly on a short jaunt with a salesperson, you simple can't drive her as she was intended to be driven. Try hammering a tip and keep her on full bore between 4500 and 6600 RPM driving only in manual in sport mode. Yeah your super bike will win at the end of a long stretch, but I guarantee you that you won't be far behind and you'll always get a thumbs up. You will never be embarrassed by your buddies in their F430's or Gallardos - ever. Yes it will take time to learn how to maximize the powerband in the tip. However, make no mistake about it - a stock TT tip on full bore is an absolute animal. There is a reason mediocre drivers like me can literally lap other 911's on a track in a 30 minute session. It ain't skill that's for sure. Borrow a friends tip for at least an entire day, running it 20 or 30 miles hard, before making a decision. My 2 cents.

 

I say give the 997.2S PDK a shot. This is the fastest car I have ever driven, there's nothing that can beat the thrill when the turbo kicks in and you literally feel like going into the orbit. The sports and sports plus mode also make a huge difference in teh throttle response and shifting time. I think they made the regular driving mode very suitable as a daily driver, but in sports plus mode, it is a beast!

 

Thanks for all the excellent insights guys. It has been helpful in understanding the personalities of the various iterations of the 997 platform and which one is likely to suit me best.

Based on what I am hearing, I think I know for certain now that a 6M is all that is going to work for me. I am just too set in my ways with the bikes and need to shift to feel as "one" with the machine.

But it was also interesting to hear the AWD on the Turbo being responsible for making the car feel "heavy" and less agile. That was definitely the case and it was totally unexpected and very weird to me. I am so used to being able to flick a machine into a corner and at the apex, pop it back up instantly into a power wheelie with twist of the throttle. In comparison, the Turbo felt like a boat.

I know bike vs. car is an insane comparison and apples & watermelons, but the 997S was so much more engaging with regard to handling feel, it was pretty shocking. I could toss that car around and throw it right to the limit of the PSM and it just stayed composed and said "Is that all you got you sissy!" These cars are all about fun and the "S" had that for me. It just needs another 200 HP.

So that is the question. I like everything about the "S", don't need or want AWD, and really would rather not spend $100K+ on a GT3. Is there a solid, reputable aftermarket turbo/tune for the "S" that can bump that 3.8 up to 500 crank HP/TQ? I think that would be the best of all worlds. Good straight-line acceleration, nimble handling, and everyday comfort. Even if it cost $25K to get there, I think it would still be worth it assuming daily driver reliability is there. But where to put the intercoolers? Hmmmm, maybe a GT3 is the way to go after all

 

Ughh, you guys are killing me but I know what you are saying. I saw 2 brand new Basalt Turbo S right off the delivery truck behind the dealership ready to go into the detailing area. Already pre-sold (lucky bastards!!!). I was salivating and my heart was racing. How can 3500 pounds of metal, rubber, and plastic do that to a man?

My 401K and IRA's were screaming, "NOOOOOO, don't do it!!!!! That is for the future!!!!" But the future may never come. Guys drop dead from heart attacks and other sheit in their 40's every day. So I could do the 72(t) SEPP and avoid the penalties. The fed will just print more tomorrow anyway. Might as well go have some fun I say.

 

Something that hasn't been discussed here is the suspension. I believe the Turbo needs some serious help in this regard. You'll find many owners have modified their suspensions to sharpen up the handling. It does make a dramatic difference in the "feel" of the car.

I bought a Turbo, but after driving a Carrera S with ceramic brakes at the Porsche Driving School, I think I'd have been just as happy with the S and for a whole lot less money. The money you save could be blown on mods and broads.