Before getting my 911, I drove cars with automatics for more than 20 years, only briefly driving a car with a manual more than a decade ago. So when I test drove Porsches, they were all PDKs until I ran across one I liked with manual, so I reluctantly decided to give it a try. After just one drive, I knew that manual is what I'd been missing all along, so I decided that I had to have manual and PDK wasn't even an option.

No doubt PDK delivers objectively higher performance and has its own kind of fun. But there's also something special about the physical effort involved in working the clutch and stick, along with the added concentration that manual requires.

The ideal solution would be for Porsche to come up with a dual transmission which has a fully manual mode (with a real clutch and stick) combined with a PDK mode - best of both worlds.

Enough typing, time to go for a drive!

 

Oddly enough, this ties in to your other thread quite nicely. Of all the cars I've driven, the Porsche 911 gearbox is my all-time favorite. The clutch action with the throws on the stick... It's perfect. I just don't like it as much as the PDK... It's perfect-er.

 

[quote=Manifold;3293434]Before getting my 911, I drove cars with automatics for more than 20 years, only briefly driving a car with a manual more than a decade ago. So when I test drove Porsches, they were all PDKs until I ran across one I liked with manual, so I reluctantly decided to give it a try. After just one drive, I knew that manual is what I'd been missing all along, so I decided that I had to have manual and PDK wasn't even an option.

No doubt PDK delivers objectively higher performance and has its own kind of fun. But there's also something special about the physical effort involved in working the clutch and stick, along with the added concentration that manual requires.
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I like the added driver-concentration with the standard trans too. What is really upsetting is the offering a Turbo S and then telling the customer you have to accept PDK or forget Turbo S. I stayed away from HP-Mercedes for years because of this same crap, ie., no manual trans. However, if I have to go automatic, I think an auto-trans is more appropriate in the GT-like 2dr Mercedes than the non-GT-more sports car 911. In my area the GT-s aston martin , ferrari & maserati, et al, are too far from dealers and are rumored fairly unreliable. The last GT-Porsche was the 928 coupe discontinued in 1999. There are rumors than a 2-dr Panamera is coming which gets Porsche back to a more GT-car where a PDK could be more welcome.

 

Interesting that you mention MB, since I also have a C63 AMG. It's available only in automatic and has paddle shifters (though it's not as good as PDK). In that car, I actually like having automatic since it provides some variety to contrast with the manual Porsche, plus it's fun to put it in manual mode and play around with all that torque, along with concentrating on things other than shifting (lines, braking, grip limits, etc.).

Generally - and this will be opposite of many people - my preference is for manual in a road sports car and paddle shifters in a track car. My reasoning is that, on the track, there's so much to do and think about that I don't mind letting go of the one "burden" of manual shifting; I think the Zonda video illustrates that nicely. But on the road, the driving situation is usually less challenging, so having manual brings back enough challenge to make the experience more fun.

It's related to that optimal stress concept: too little stress makes you bored, and too much stress makes you overwhelmed, whereas optimal stress makes you challenged enough to have a fun "flow" experience while growing in ability.

 

I went from a CL63 to the PDK. What is really nice about the MB trans is that when using the paddles you can "cap" the highest gear so for instance if you manual shift to 4th and move to automatic the trans won't go over 4th. If the PDK could do this it would be perfect.

 

I don't understand... Why not just not shift into 5th?

Or are you suggesting running in auto mode, but still not shifting into 5th?

 

I guess I won't ever understand the sentiment that "rowing through the gears is fun!"

It's not like I'm one who has never seen the track or only owned automatics. I started racing Karts at 6 and open-wheel at 13 and I wanted nothing more than to not have to shift. When sequential transmissions started to become affordable to privateers like my father and I, I discovered a whole new meaning of FUN and FAST. The minimized use of the clutch pedal allowed me to concentrate on other things.

Whenever I drove my street car, I always wished I didn't have to use the clutch or H-pattern shifter, it was simply an annoying chore, and took the fun out of driving for me, especially in traffic.

Now that dual-clutch style transmissions are becoming affordable and readily available on street cars, I'm very excited. I don't want to see the traditional manual transmission die because I understand that there are people out there who think they are fun, regardless of how crazy I think they are, haha. I know people that think there is nothing better than a "big" girl too, doesn't make it right though, LOL.

"PDK" is here to stay, and once I get back into a Porsche in a few years (formerly owned a 993 and 996, both manual transmission) it will absolutely be a PDK Turbo.

 

I really liked the PDK in the GTS but there's nothing like a good old stick!

 

I agree with the concentration aspect, as I mentioned in reference to my C63. Hence my preference for automated manual on the track. But not on the road, we're much farther from the limits, so we have concentration to spare and the stick adds fun.

If driving a lot in traffic, I'd definitely want automatic. In fact, I wouldn't bother with a sports car in that situation and would instead get a luxury car or sports sedan.

 

At a recent Porsche owner's event the speaker(fairly well known in Porsche circles) lamented the prevalence of electronic controls(shifting, traction, etc) in racing events and said that these aids really closed the gap between good drivers and excellent drivers. He went on to mention that he'd heard talks by the sanctioning bodies of possibly limiting the use of these devices in professional racing and he applauded that effort.

Shifting well on the track is difficult however when you do hit that perfect downshift you know you did it alone. PDK is faster but also allows those who are unable or unwilling to learn to drive a manual well at the track to be competitive(and surpass) those that do.

YMMV,
Nels

 

Agreed, and I should clarify that when I refer to a track car, I'm talking about recreational track use, not racing. For racing, makes sense for cars to be "simpler" so that differences in driving skill are mainly what determine winning and losing.

 

Gotta laugh at this comment - you do realize that the 928 was produced for nearly 20 years with regular upgrades but the same basic body design - hardly "short-lived"

 

I wonder if the speaker is aware of the leaps forward in engineering that motor sports brings to the industry. It doesn't make sense to go backwards in technology. There have always been advances in technology.

Why don't we start the race with the drivers running to their cars? Advances. Cars have gotten better because of the engineering involved. Drivers have improved to keep up with the technology. The cream will always rise to the top.

What happened to Richard Petty's career when he stopped racing on dirt? (loose analogy, but I hope you see my point)

We could argue that asphalt gives drivers without the ability to run on dirt an advantage.

We could argue that disc brakes gives drivers who don't understand how drum brakes work have an advantage.

We could argue that 1000HP cars givers drivers who can't handle a low HP car an advantage.

Etc...

Drivers adapt. That's what they do.

 

There have been many opinions in this thread, I have merely offered another. You could debate the points you made however we've been mostly confined to PDK vs. manual here.

FWIW, the speaker was Hurley Haywood at the Momentum Porsche Coffee & Cars event earlier this month and while I can't speak for Mr. Haywood I believe he is most likely aware of the leaps forward in engineering.

Nels

 

As an engineer myself, I don't want to diminish the contributions and achievements of engineers, but IMO the point is that, in pro racing, the competition should be primarily between drivers rather than cars.

When cars do more of the driving (especially via powerful computers and sophisticated software getting lots of sensor data),the role of the driver is reduced.

We could envision a day when cars are so automated that the "driver" is hardly doing more than going along for the ride, but that would be neither fun nor real racing.

If you have a GT-R (?), I can imagine that you might not be receptive to this line of argument.