what will a set of 997 turbo sway bars do?
#1
09-03-2011, 09:56 AM
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
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what will a set of 997 turbo sway bars do?
I have a bone stock 997 turbo. I would like an affordable way to improve handling. What will a new set of sway bars do? What will I feel? Is the install costly? And on another note what is a well priced front lip that will compliment the car? Thanks
#5
09-03-2011, 08:05 PM
I would start with a more aggressive alignment first, before spending money on adjustable sways.
#6
09-03-2011, 08:48 PM
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
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Which tires did you replace them with?
#7
09-03-2011, 09:30 PM
Hi, funny someone was just PM'ing me with the same question, so I'll copy and paste. Hope this helps.
I got GMG sway bars on my car. I am actually one of the few people who did it one step at a time (deliberately to learn), and the first thing I put on my car way back when was the sway bar. Unfortunately, and I was very surprised to find out, the effect of sway bar, alone, is subtle on the Turbo's very soft stock suspension. A little firmer steering and a little less leaning was about all I felt. I think what happens is that the stock suspension is so soft that the sway bars cannot help much. The car did NOT stop leaning/body rolling too much like I was hoping it would.
IMHO, these are the 3 minimum steps, in order of cheap to expensive, if (and only if) you think the car rolls too much or feels too soft:
1. As Bob suggested: Alignment change to more front negative camber. Critical and simple and cheap. Look at the first page of the Bilstein thread in my signature to see the basic alignment change. Very very simple: negative 1.1 front camber. This is done to increase front cornering force/traction. The front tires bite better in corners and help the car to turn in more readily.
2a. Coilover. Unfortunately,there is no way around this.
2b. R compound tires like Toyo Roxes 888 (cheapest), Michelin Cup, or Pirelli Corsa.
3. Sway bar if above doesn't satisfy.
Professional drivers use sway bar to adjust understeer/oversteer behavior. To reduce understeer (which is the basic problem with our Turbo), you soften the front bar, and stiffen rear (full soft front, full stiff rear). The problem with this, as a few of us have found out, is that on a car with stiffer spring, a stiff setting of the rear sway makes the car extremely stiff and uncomfortable.
Note that the cost of installation of sway bar is not cheap - I think it's the front that needs a lot of work to install. Although I added sway bar first in my car, in retrospect, I would have done it in the order I listed above: alignment, then coilover, then R compound if you go to the track or if you are the aggressive type even on streets, then sway bars if you feel you are advanced enough to take advantage of its adjustment.
I got GMG sway bars on my car. I am actually one of the few people who did it one step at a time (deliberately to learn), and the first thing I put on my car way back when was the sway bar. Unfortunately, and I was very surprised to find out, the effect of sway bar, alone, is subtle on the Turbo's very soft stock suspension. A little firmer steering and a little less leaning was about all I felt. I think what happens is that the stock suspension is so soft that the sway bars cannot help much. The car did NOT stop leaning/body rolling too much like I was hoping it would.
IMHO, these are the 3 minimum steps, in order of cheap to expensive, if (and only if) you think the car rolls too much or feels too soft:
1. As Bob suggested: Alignment change to more front negative camber. Critical and simple and cheap. Look at the first page of the Bilstein thread in my signature to see the basic alignment change. Very very simple: negative 1.1 front camber. This is done to increase front cornering force/traction. The front tires bite better in corners and help the car to turn in more readily.
2a. Coilover. Unfortunately,there is no way around this.
2b. R compound tires like Toyo Roxes 888 (cheapest), Michelin Cup, or Pirelli Corsa.
3. Sway bar if above doesn't satisfy.
Professional drivers use sway bar to adjust understeer/oversteer behavior. To reduce understeer (which is the basic problem with our Turbo), you soften the front bar, and stiffen rear (full soft front, full stiff rear). The problem with this, as a few of us have found out, is that on a car with stiffer spring, a stiff setting of the rear sway makes the car extremely stiff and uncomfortable.
Note that the cost of installation of sway bar is not cheap - I think it's the front that needs a lot of work to install. Although I added sway bar first in my car, in retrospect, I would have done it in the order I listed above: alignment, then coilover, then R compound if you go to the track or if you are the aggressive type even on streets, then sway bars if you feel you are advanced enough to take advantage of its adjustment.
Last edited by cannga; 09-03-2011 at 10:34 PM.
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#9
09-04-2011, 01:34 AM
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#10
09-04-2011, 01:46 AM
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I went with the GMG sways/springs as well as dog bones and toe links with a little extra front and rear camber. Think I'm like -1.4, 0 toe front / -1.9, with a little toe in rear. Sways set to medium/medium for now.
Without sport mode the car is more compliant and smooth than stock. Sport mode on and you definitely notice the dampers hardening up more.
I wanted to reduce the porpoising and body roll of the stock setup while improving the feel of the car. It's my DD and after everything I read a good spring/sway combo will go a long way with the TT.
I really wasn't happy with the stock suspension setup. While it was very capable -- AWD, huge front/rear tires, it naturally has a lot of grip -- it still felt pretty numb and did not inspire confidence.
I'm much happier now and I'm considering aftermarket drop links to get even more feel out fo the car.
I installed my front sway bar myself one night. The rear is a cinch. The front, not so much. I would not recommend the front sway bar as a DIY without a LOT of time, determination and a lift if you're doing it for the first time like I was on jack stands in my garage
I planned on doing springs myself too (even bought a bushing removal tool) but I ran out of energy and took it to a shop the next morning to finish and align.
I know the extra camber is going to wear my tires faster (Michelin PSS) but if I get a good 10k miles out of them I will be happy.
Without sport mode the car is more compliant and smooth than stock. Sport mode on and you definitely notice the dampers hardening up more.
I wanted to reduce the porpoising and body roll of the stock setup while improving the feel of the car. It's my DD and after everything I read a good spring/sway combo will go a long way with the TT.
I really wasn't happy with the stock suspension setup. While it was very capable -- AWD, huge front/rear tires, it naturally has a lot of grip -- it still felt pretty numb and did not inspire confidence.
I'm much happier now and I'm considering aftermarket drop links to get even more feel out fo the car.
I installed my front sway bar myself one night. The rear is a cinch. The front, not so much. I would not recommend the front sway bar as a DIY without a LOT of time, determination and a lift if you're doing it for the first time like I was on jack stands in my garage
I planned on doing springs myself too (even bought a bushing removal tool) but I ran out of energy and took it to a shop the next morning to finish and align.
I know the extra camber is going to wear my tires faster (Michelin PSS) but if I get a good 10k miles out of them I will be happy.
Last edited by djben; 09-04-2011 at 01:55 AM.
#12
09-04-2011, 11:39 AM
A good article I once read about suspension setup likened it to cooking, where the tires, springs and dampers are the main ingredients while the sway bars is the seasoning. You can easily "over season" your setup with the wrong set of sway bars. I noticed this in one of my previous cars, where I had the suspension in a pretty good place, but after I put on the sways, it took it too far and the car became unbalanced for the tire setup.
If you want to properly setup the car, I would recommend the following:
1. Decide what kind of tire you want to run
2. Based upon the tire choice, choose the coilovers or combination of spring rates/dampening
3. Start off with a relatively neutral alignment while dialing in the coilover settings. If necessary, increase/decrease spring rate
4. Once you're happy with the general coilover settings, dial in the alignment settings
5. Re-dial in the coilovers for the new alignment settings
6. Only then consider replacing sway bars. Then repeat steps 4 and 5
If you want to properly setup the car, I would recommend the following:
1. Decide what kind of tire you want to run
2. Based upon the tire choice, choose the coilovers or combination of spring rates/dampening
3. Start off with a relatively neutral alignment while dialing in the coilover settings. If necessary, increase/decrease spring rate
4. Once you're happy with the general coilover settings, dial in the alignment settings
5. Re-dial in the coilovers for the new alignment settings
6. Only then consider replacing sway bars. Then repeat steps 4 and 5
#14
09-04-2011, 09:07 PM
If I didn't have my Bilstein already and if the cost were not so high, I would have gone for this. Even if you don't plan to spend that much, it's a good idea to take a test drive to see what the best people could do.
