Alright in the interest of peace and harmony, how about I added an asterisk to my recommendation: only if you don't track? :-)

Unsprung weight is a most critical issue in motorsports (stating the obvious), , & always a fun and intersting topic to talk about. When you do a cost analysis, the advantage in favor of PCCB might be even more. For example, a set of the lightest and best wheel in existence, BBS Fi, will set you back around $8000-9000 when all is said and done. PCCB when new is around 9000 as an option, when used, so much less.

So how much is the weight saving?
BBS Fi versus stock Turbo wheels: all 4 wheels, around 30 lbs (Someone checks my math LOL; stock 23 lbs 8 front, 27 lbs 14 rear; BBS Fi 7.4/8.9 kg; so 103 lbs stock - 72 lbs BBS Fi.)
PCCB versus Iron: 35 lbs!!
Comparison is done for fun and the analogy is not exact (wheel weight is further from axis and therefore a more effective weight reduction, etc.), but essentially, you are getting all the benefits of PCCB for free, even at full 9k option price.

 

This just narrowed down my search to an '09.

 

I wouldn't get the 997.1 turbo if I could afford the 997.2.I was never really happy with the ride and handling of my 997.1.The front end was underdamped and bouncy (unless you switched to "sport" which was too hard).And the car suffered from excessive "throttle steer".Lift off on a steady radius 100mph curve,pulling,say a moderate 0.7 g,and there was enough reaction to "tuck in" and switch lanes quite smartly,with no change to the steering wheel position.The 997.2 doesn't do that,furthermore it is better damped,the front end is remarkably less "bouncy",the steering is nicer,the brakes are better and the whole car is more fun and confidence inspiring.I think some of the improvements must have come from the lighter engine,lower centre of gravity and the active engine mounts,aswell as revised springs and sway bars.A lot of attention is paid to the pdk transission,but for me,it is the handling improvement that is more important.I recomend test driving the two first.I was surprised at all this myself!Re the engine;a turbo pdk with re map and sports cats is a very quick,reliable car and it would take a very seriously and expensively modified 997.1 turbo to keep with it.

 

The contention through out this thread, and my numerous posts on suspension, has always been "must change stock suspension," so any comparison to stock 997.1 suspension is null and void. :-) Kidding.
But the message is this, whether comparing to GT3, or GT2, or Corvette, whatever, based your decision on stock 997.1 suspension and you'll miss out on what likely will be the best Turbo ever built. On this and this alone I concede: stock 997.1 Turbo's suspension must be changed to something like Bilstein. IOW, Bilstein = heaven on earth.

As for 997.2 Turbo's suspension, my humble opinions: Yes I've driven the car, and although I will agree that it is an improvement over 997.1 Turbo *stock*, my overall impression of 997.2 suspension is one of disappointment. The suspension while stiffer (front sway bar and rear spring IIRC) is still way too soft, for me and and my expectation of what a street/track world class sport car should be, and there are still a lot of body rolls and front/back weight transfer (nothing wrong with this, it's designed to be a boulevard cruiser), the steering is still numb and still over-assisted (my biggest criticism of Turbo and ameliorated by stiffer springs, particularly front springs), the iron brake is good, but I would *still* vote for PCCB.
For comparison, as far as stiffness, "sportiness," and feel of precision, my ranking is as followed: the 997.1 stock Turbo is lowest, 997.2 stock Turbo is next, and Bilstein is highest (and of course, least comfortable). 997.2 stock Turbo feels more like 997.1 stock Turbo, than to Bilstein.

So... not only my recommendation for 997.1 stays, I will even strongly suggest that 997.2 owners who track their cars to consider changing their spring rates so something higher, and of course r comps for the track. The rear end of 997.2 Turbo *still* has way too much movement when pushed.

 

I understand that the functionality and performance benefits do not outweigh the costs of PCCB's however if you're in the used Turbo market look for a car with PCCB's. To me it was a must, 1 because of the exclusivity, 2 because of brake dust. I've only had the car for a week but the initial bite is amazing and as mentioned by many the lack of brake dust is just as impressive. Yes yes replacements are expensive but I like many who plan to go to track will swap them out for steels.

 

Yes,I was only comparing stock with stock.I have never driven a modified 997.1 or 997.2,but I have driven a 997 GT2.Now,that was very good,re suspension set up-I liked it a lot-better than the 997.1 or 997.2 turbo.I liked the ride of it too,compared with my 997.1,it was better damped and the steering was the best I have experienced.I would have bought one,it was a lot of fun and confidence inspiring to drive fast!But I didn't get one and the reason came down to tires.The Michelin Sport Cup tires just took too long to warm up and in cold,rainy England,they compromised the car too much for a road car.Re modifying suspension,I have never done that to a Porsche.I have considered it,though and it might be a good idea if one was keeping the car a long time.Another thing to consider is waiting just a little longer for the 991 turbo to come out-now,that should have much better suspension/ride/handling and might not need to be modified.So,I am happy with my 997.2 for now,but I always look forward to the "next car".I did actually look forward to the 997.1 after my 996 turbo,but,to me,that was a "sideways" move,because the 996 seemed to have a more sporty suspension set up that was more fun and confidence inspiring,even though it had a rather firm ride.

 

Ah bitten by the GT2 bug? This is why I recommend that everyone should test drive GT3/GT2, if anything to recognize one end of the spectrum (handling, less comfort) versus another (comfort, less handling).
At any rate, if you believe in the highlighted part above, IM very HO you are setting up yourself for another disappointment. History (from 996 Turbo on) has proven that Porsche makes the Turbo the way it is because they want it that way - a soft, comfortable daily cruiser with handling as second thought. They are NOT going to change. Majority of Turbo owners are happy with their car in *stock* form; it is only a minority fringe like you and me, who wish for more (no one is wrong or right, just a matter of personal preference). Porsche is selling all the Turbo it's making, as high as 2700 per year at its peak if I interpret this report correctly http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/144475.html. At say 140,000 per car, do you think they are going to mess with $US 370,000,000?

In other words, what will the 991 Turbo suspension be:
1. Similar in supsension tuning and handling as current Turbo?
2. Total transformation to GT2: handling first, comfort second?
3. Something in between, like Bilstein Damptronic - stiffer, less body roll, more precise, more "weighted" steering, but still comfortable for cruising?
I am willing to bet, 10 to 1, or even 100 to 1, that the answer will be 1. They are not going to mess with a financial success.

If you are looking for 1, yes you are on the right track. OTOH, if you have been bitten by the GT2 bug and now want a more "aggressive" Turbo, from where I stand, you have no choice but either get a GT2 and use street tires (I don't advocate this, but do what you have to do.), or give the Bilstein a try on your Turbo.
Please trust me on this: as far as Turbo's suspension, I don't know it all, but I have been through it all. Ha ha -kidding. Modification of the suspension is your only recourse. It is downright amazing to me that a $2500 suspension kit could so transform this car. I mean it when I say a modified 997.1 Turbo has *NO* competition as an all around sport car & daily driver. I've driven nearly all worthy "opponents" and still am in love with my Turbo baby every moment that I am with it :-).
Oh - don't forget Cargraphic exhaust - made in England too and sounds so good it's sinful (the low frequency rumbling + machine-gun like staccato at WOT).

 

I'd like to open a can of worms by saying I agree with this except I would OPT FOR REDS. Good thread.

 

I am expecting a lot from the 991 turbo!Early reports on the non turbo 991 are very encouraging.It seems to me that with such an improved platform to start with,a much better handling/ride compromise can be reached.I will expect much better ride and much better and more fun handling than before.The better weight distribution,longer wheelbase,wider track and reduced weight are all big advantages.No previous 911 has ever had those benefits.A modern car with latest technology,should be able to ride well and handle great too.Take the Mclaren Mp4-it handles very well (close to a GT3RS in a recent test),but has a superb ride too.The new 991 turbo is going to be an incredible car-the best 911 turbo ever and well worth waiting a little for.

 

No - chassis dynamics and ride/handling compromise are 2 totally separate issues. I believe you are confusing between the 2.

1. Chassis dynamics: The 991 will have what, engine now 2-3 inches forward? But let me play devil's advocate - at best this is no better than the Porsche with the best handling and perfect weight distribution right? The Cayman?
Do you think Cayman escapes the compromise of ride versus handling? No.

2. Ride versus handling: This is the law of physics. A change to a more forward engine, wide or longer wheel base, etc. does nothing to change this.
The heart and soul of suspension tuning are the springs (& tires). The Turbo, because of its mission a life, a daily driver, will forever have soft springs, soft steering, soft sway bar. Think $US 370,000,000. No matter how you move the engine or change the chassis, it is fact that the springs will be soft because this what daily driver has. This is the primary principle of Bilstein, or KW, or Moton mods - stiffer springs to gain handling and sacrifice comfort.
It is also why the Cayman doesn't feel like a GT3, even though Cayman's chassis dynamics are inherently superior. Its 2 problems: less power/weight ratio, and relatively softer springs.

 

This is 100% right. From club racing motorcycles, I leared this. On a bike, chassis has to do with CG position, swing arm pivot point and length, fork rake and trail, ride height, etc. Suspension is the sag, preload, spring rate, rebound and compression damping. I'm sure its more complex in a car, but its two different set ups. Generally, you work on chassis first, then suspension. To get a factory's baseline chassis set up is gold.

This is one of the reasons GP bikes (and I presume F1 cars) require so much work to set up, the chassis set up is adjustable in virtually every criteria.

 

Ok so a 2009 TT with sport chrono plus PCCB is worth a search!

 

Has anyone compared the 2_am very happy with BBK_have never driven a PCCB car, except the 458.

 

Interestingly enough,the Cayman R won the autocar "best handling car of the year",conducted on a track,beating the GT3's best efforts,obviously not for lap time,due to less power,but for handling and track day fun.Looking at the pictures it has very little roll and must ride better than GT3's.Yes,the 991 turbo is going to have a weight distribution somewhere between current 997's and the Cayman.Obviously,for ultimate "race track handling",the spring rates will need to be stiffer than desirable for a road car,but they won't need to be as stiff as a GT3 to eliminate that front end bobbing and bouncing that lesser 991's suffer from and a car with a wider track and longer wheelbase is going to ride better anyway.I am going to guess that the 991 turbo will set a lap time pretty close to the current GT2 RS,but will have a really nice ride-the best of any turbo so far.Now,that would be "progress"!One doesn't have to wait that long to find evidence of progress-even the current 997.2 turbo sets laps times that are pretty close to the GT2-check out "fastest laps"-on some tracks it is actually ahead of the GT2,which surprised me.We can soon forget about turbo 997.1's and 997.2's-the 991 turbo is going to be the "best turbo ever"!

 

The 997.2 Turbo is a great car, but let's not get carried away and use some basic logic here.
GT2=350 lbs lighter, suspension tuned purely for track and to kill the likes of Ferrari 458 and Lambo, more horse power, r comp tires.
2010 Turbo=350 lbs heavier, less horsepower, soft suspension daily driver, street tire.
Does it make sense at all that these 2 cars could be "pretty close" in their lap times?

Please don't trust these myths on the internet, sometimes started by Porsche itself. The only times you could trust are 3rd party testing, the most commonly quoted are Nurburgring times, in particular those by von Saurma, not because he's some kind of perfect judge, but because the consistency of the methodology and driving. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times
GT2: 7:33 by Sport Auto, Horst von Saurma
Turbo S: 7:42 by Auto Bild, no test yet by Sport Auto.

If 991 Turbo is "pretty close" to GT2 RS, pigs will fly. Please check the specs (the weight and horsepower, and tires, and ride height, and suspension) before making your guess. For starter, GT2 RS will be very likely a full 450 lbs lighter than 991 Turbo! Not only pigs will fly, so will the 991 Turbo to make up for the deficit and defy the law of physics.