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New Suspension & Alignment Done. Track Ready!

997 Turbo / GT2 2006Ė2012 Turbo discussion on the 997 model Porsche 911 Twin Turbo.

New Suspension & Alignment Done. Track Ready!

  #61  
Old 02-21-2012, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by speed21 View Post
Doc it'd be great to hear all the detail on the recovery of your alignment re exact lower shim used etc. I'm guessing he's going to reset your car up for free.....given you've saved his bacon big time?
Yes, reset it for no charge. Bacon is good!
 
  #62  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Paul, my questions to Ira of Tarett and his answers (in blue), in reference to http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-...kit-detail.htm . It appears the difference between 996 and 997 LCA is not length, but the thickness of that thrust arm bushing (the round bushing on the LCA itself that connects to the trust arm in front of the LCA if I am not mistaken).
BTW for anyone reading this, if you have a favorite vendor already - never mind, otherwise I would most highly recommend Tarett stuffs. I learned of Tarett from guys on Rennlist's racing forum - it's the "real" thing and it's been around a long long long time (the key ), and Ira is a knowledgeable and superb help.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1. On your web site, it appears you are offering 996 (**not** 997) GT3 LCA for 997. Why is it that there is no 997 GT3 LCA?
We carry the 996 GT3 LCA mostly because of price and availability. I sell them to 997 and 987 customers .... Iíve sold a few 997 cup LCAís, but they are much more expensive.

2. And for 997, you need to use a "trailing arm adapter" kit? Why is this necessary please?
The thrust arm bushing of the front LCA on the 997 and 987 is thicker than the 996 one is. The rear is the same as on the 996. To make up the difference in thickness, we have an adaptor spacer kit that takes up the extra space. The other option is to change the thrust arms to the 996 ones, which is much more expensive.

3. Is the length of 996 GT3 LCA different from that of 997 GT3 LCA? Is this why the trailing arm adapter kit is necessary?
The cup arms come with a 10mm shim, and end up being about 20mm longer than the 996 arms overall. I donít know how they compare with the 997 arms, but Iíve always based the shim quantity on the 997 and 996 arms being the same length, and itís always worked out about right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I guessed cost had some play in that exercise. OK. I'm clear on point 1 and 2 but am not real clear on point 3 re the arm length equaliser.

Can, ask him if he took the 10mm shim off the 997 LCA's, what shim thickness is needed to make the 996 LCA the same length as the 997 arm? Is he able to be specific?

Originally Posted by Doc GTO View Post
Yes, reset it for no charge. Bacon is good!
Phew. As last man on that job his head was on the block so nice recovery and good to hear it's finalised. Did he specify what shims he used on the 997 arms to get the 2.5? Also how does it drive after the Tarett plates and full reset? Any different than before?
 
  #63  
Old 02-22-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by speed21 View Post
Phew. As last man on that job his head was on the block so nice recovery and good to hear it's finalised. Did he specify what shims he used on the 997 arms to get the 2.5? Also how does it drive after the Tarett plates and full reset? Any different than before?

It is at the shop now getting done. The goal is a max of 5mm on the bottom (which are the 996 GT3 LCAs) and the Taretts on top.

After the install they will re do the alignment and check corner weights and I can give you guys a full report.

I didn't drive the car much after the initial install because I got the info from you guys shorty after I got it back so I let her sit in the garage until I got the replacement parts and I trailered it to the shop. For the max of 5-6 miles of driving it was like a razor blade compared to stock!
 
  #64  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by eclou View Post
The GT cars have different uprights in the front to allow for more caster, and even then many folks upgrade from the stock GT uprights to the Cup car uprights for even more caster. These won't fit our cars due to the front drive axles
eclou, thanks for the informative post, as always. So the different pivot lines of Turbo versus GT2 are related to the 4wd system? I feel a little better.

Why do people want more positive caster at the track? For more directional feel? Or are they using caster stagger? TIA
 
  #65  
Old 02-27-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
eclou, thanks for the informative post, as always. So the different pivot lines of Turbo versus GT2 are related to the 4wd system? I feel a little better.

Why do people want more positive caster at the track? For more directional feel? Or are they using caster stagger? TIA
More positive castor helps the tires "lean into the turn" which keeps more of the tire in contact with the track as the car leans on the loaded side.

There is a fine line as to how much though. Too much can make the steering heavy and slower to react, at least on non assisted steering. I felt with this on my older Alfa race cars.
 
  #66  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by speed21 View Post
Thanks for the link Can. Those top camber plates do look good. Do you have them on your car at all?
Hi Paul, no I don't have a camber plate on my car; my setup is still simply Bilstein + GMG sway as the car is a strict daily driver. The cambers are set at -1.1 front/-1.6 rear and per the even tire wear my tuner suggests that is all I need.

But yes, the way I understand it is (anyone pls correct as needed) if you just want max front camber of around -2 (Our stock car maxes out at around -1.1, the camber plate adds about -1, for total around -2.1.), then the camber plate is a simpler and less expensive solution than LCA. And perhaps invokes less of a geometry change than the LCA.
It is when you need more camber at the track (like DocGTO) that you need both camber plate and LCA.

This is really an excellent thread. I believe the 3D geometry relationship between the various links that we play around with are not considered often enough and could certainly be the cause of the various suspension mod problems we've seen: for example the LCA here and most definitely IMHO the sway bar/drop link problems.
Doc thanks for above reply.
 

Last edited by cannga; 02-29-2012 at 11:53 AM.
  #67  
Old 02-29-2012, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Hi Paul, no I don't have a camber plate on my car; my setup is still simply Bilstein + GMG sway as the car is a strict daily driver. The cambers are set at -1.1 front/-1.6 rear and per the even tire wear my tuner suggests that is all I need.

But yes, the way I understand it is (anyone pls correct as needed) if you just want max front camber of around -2 (Our stock car maxes out at around -1.1, the camber plate adds about -1, for total around -2.1.), then the camber plate is a simpler and less expensive solution than LCA. And perhaps invokes less of a geometry change than the LCA.
It is when you need more camber at the track (like DocGTO) that you need both camber plate and LCA.

This is really an excellent thread. I believe the 3D geometry relationship between the various links that we play around with are not considered often enough and could certainly be the cause of the various suspension mod problems we've seen: for example the LCA here and most definitely IMHO the sway bar/drop link problems.
Doc thanks for above reply.
Yes, the camber plates will offer up an additional -1.1 degrees so with the factory settings of -.8 to -1.0 you would get about -2. More then enough for a nice sport setup and limited track duty.

For more track use the best setup is about -2.5 so you do need to add the 996 GT3 LCA with a 5mm spacer.
 
  #68  
Old 02-29-2012, 05:22 PM
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am running 2.5 degrees camber with our camber plates on a tt. We just opened up the factory adjustment hole. But its at the limit really. Once some shop at P Ricard tried to do it with shims and the front diff axle came out! Not good..

BTW cannga -2 degrees is perfect for corsas even for the road. They are designed to run with more camber than most tires.
 
  #69  
Old 03-01-2012, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by GT-TT View Post
am running 2.5 degrees camber with our camber plates on a tt. We just opened up the factory adjustment hole. But its at the limit really. Once some shop at P Ricard tried to do it with shims and the front diff axle came out! Not good..

BTW cannga -2 degrees is perfect for corsas even for the road. They are designed to run with more camber than most tires.

Yes, anymore the 5mm on the bottom is an issue.
 
  #70  
Old 03-07-2012, 12:38 PM
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Sorry if this is a dumb question. But are these Tarett camber plates adjustable after they have been installed? Or do you set them and then install them and thats how they are till you pull them off again?

http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-986-front-camber-plate-set-996fc4fsmt-detail.htm

The rear plates don't even mention the ability to change the camber at all.

http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-rear-camber-plate-set-996rsmt-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_1213443= 7796473#ITEM_1213443

I'm looking at the GNG sway bars and springs; if this is the ideal way to go for someone that wants to do 3-4 PDX's a year it seems like that would be a good time to install something like this.
 
  #71  
Old 03-07-2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake's Oy View Post
Sorry if this is a dumb question. But are these Tarett camber plates adjustable after they have been installed? Or do you set them and then install them and thats how they are till you pull them off again?

http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-986-front-camber-plate-set-996fc4fsmt-detail.htm

The rear plates don't even mention the ability to change the camber at all.

http://www.tarett.com/items/996-997-products/996-997-suspension/996-997-monoballs~bushings/996-rear-camber-plate-set-996rsmt-detail.htm?repost=1&start=0&Count_Class_1_1213443= 7796473#ITEM_1213443

I'm looking at the GNG sway bars and springs; if this is the ideal way to go for someone that wants to do 3-4 PDX's a year it seems like that would be a good time to install something like this.
GMG is nice stuff and affordable. I believe that the Tarret front camber plates just offset the factory setup about -1.1 and then you can use the factory adjustment like usual. I get my car back next week so I can't take a look. Ira most likely will chime in.

You don't need the rears in most situations. I got the desired -2.0 off my factory setup.
 
  #72  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:29 PM
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Waiting for this Ira chimes ^_^;
 
  #73  
Old 03-14-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Jake's Oy View Post
Waiting for this Ira chimes ^_^;
Email him directly.
 
  #74  
Old 03-21-2012, 10:31 AM
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I got the car back this past weekend. Front end is set up much better and the axles have plenty of room now. It goes in for the re-alignment this Friday and we will also double check the sway bar end links to make sure they are still good to go. Those camber plates from Tarett are very nice, high quality pieces!

We also did the Sachs stage 2.5 clutch from AWE and 1 step colder plugs in preparation for a tune. That clutch is fantastic!!!
 
  #75  
Old 03-21-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc GTO View Post
Those camber plates from Tarett are very nice, high quality pieces!
Cool man. Are you able to adjust them installed or you adjust them before install?
 

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