Hey Guys,

New member here with a question.

My daily driver for the past 8 years has been my E39 M5, which I still love. I have a Z4M coupe for weekend duty and the pair has done well for me. Still the game has moved on, and I’m beginning to desire some more power and newer gear for my daily driver. The new F10 M5 is too big for me, but the upcoming F80 M3 may fit the bill. However, I’m not sure I can give up my M5 as it runs and looks as new. So the thought came to add a 997.1 TT, keep the M5 and alternate both as daily drivers. The subtleness of the M5 is one reason I love it so much, and it seems that the 997 TT in a sliver or gray will provide a similar experience (or as close as one can get to “subtle” for a near supercar experience). The price of 997.1 TTs is right as well.

While doing my research, I came across many (generally favorable) reviews of the 997.1 TT that note the handling as a weak spot, and this has been re-enforced by some threads I’ve read on Porsche forums. I’m not likely to track the car, so I can’t imagine that the 997.1 TTs handling will seem lacking to me, but I’m willing to buy a 997.2 (possibly waiting another year – clearly this is not an urgent purchase!) if the handling is much better.

Contrasting this, I've also read many positive things about the Mezger engine (dry sump, reliability, etc.). Manual tranny for me for sure, so tip vs. PDK is not an issue. Ok, I'm a bit confused (doesn't help that I'm a Porsche newbie!).

Any thoughts/opinions are welcome.

Thanks!

 

This is our 997.1 Turbo. While ours is a bit lacking in the subtlety department, I'm not sure I would trade it for a 997.2.

Personally, I prefer the race proven reliability of the GT1 based engine, and while I would love to have PDK, manual for manual, I'm not sure the 997.2 is really that much quicker in real world conditions. You would be hard pressed to notice a 20 horsepower deficit, and if it really bothered you, there are basic tunes that get you much more than 20 horsepower.

 

Kevin, you're on the right track with your research, and asking the right questions. In general people go with the .2 if they are looking for the PDK, but if going manual the .1 is a great option. With the $$ saved on the .1, you can upgrade the suspension which then makes it better than the .2, then you truly have best of both worlds. Plus as you stated, the dry sump mezger engine is nice peace of mind, especially if you want to throw on a tune and unlock it's abilities without any real stress that something would go wrong.

 

Thanks to both of you for your replies. I appreciate it. At this point leaning towards a manual 997.1 TT.

 

Go for the 997.1, for a fraction of the price difference with a 997.2 you can upgrade the suspension and make it even better than a .2 .

 

You will be amazed by what a better alignment will do for you with a .1 Turbo. I did springs, sway bars w/ end links and GT3 LCAs and the thing is a monster on the road course!

 

What, you mean you don't engage launch control from every red light and proceed to redline every gear so you can get the ZOMG 2.9431 SECOND 0-60 time?



Op, you can see the suspension mods I have done to my 911TT, similar to what I had to do on the M3 minus the actual shock replacement as the OEM shocks are good. I'm very happy with the results. The car is very capable in stock form but the feel just wasn't there enough for me. Slightly more agressive than stock alignment but nothing outrageous.

 

When people complain about TT handling its comparing it to a GT3. Not a focus or 1988 Caddy. Most will tell you that some of the road feel is gone. Yeah if you love trammeling the steering wheel slamming from side to side with every bump and hump... much like a M3 e36/46 or Mroadster.
That is handy on a track were the pavement is everything, you have a **** track and people dont show up.
It SUCKS on the main road where in a TT you have great road feel but you have the "cushion" if you will. I still have an Mroadster that I have at my in laws and Just had the 2 recent M3's So I have the last 3 iterations of the Ultimate driving Machine, as in the E36 that never lost a handling review. I will never go back to those cars. Well I have to go back to the Mroadster but the point is the 911 TT is the ULTIMATE Daily Driver. If you want to be frank the 911TT is like a Gen 5 fighter, you point it and it goes, you don't feel the POS road beneath you, well you know its there but coming from a BMW ///M cars its like "ok this road looks way worse, I can feel its bad, but its not affecting my line or driving, its actually fun!!!!"

Point is for a track the GT3 has more feedback. For the street.... 911TT all day.

trouble is the people talking about handling are in no position to speak. I remember talking to Will Turner... from Turnermotorsports the BMW racing team. When I was talking about upgrading to a new suspension setup he asked me if I felt as a regular joe driver if I felt I was getting the most from my M3 suspension, and if I was I could have his ride, because his personal M3 would take more than he could throw at it. Did it have everything? Sure, but not because he couldnt out drive about anyone on the road stock.

So you have a lot of people with no clue complaining about a suspension because they read about it somewhere. Same people cant tell you what camber is or offsets, but they sure can tell you what suspension you need..... But they also cant tell you WHY you need to upgrade your suspension, rebound stiffness or anything a new race setup brings to the fight.

 

The 911 Turbo steering feel is nice, the wheel is alive in the hands, every bump and slope on the road is transmitted through the wheel. It is exciting.

On the other hand, I was on German Autobahn last weekend in a Turbo. I went up to 260kmh and that was enough for me, because it was scary - the light front and steering, and steering wheel jumping around in the hands. When I drove Audi TT RS on the same stretch of road, it was less scary at 300 than 911 at 260, and going 250-280 in Audi is very pleasant experience, much more relaxing than in Turbo.

911 Turbo - ultimate daily driver? Questionable.

 

997.1 stock suspension was a little unsettling to me. Especially after coming from a very balanced e46 M3 many years ago. That was fixed by the installation of the b16s. The other considerations to me are the gt1 based engine is a plus if you plan to mod but the 997.2 has was way better PCM (blue tooth, traffic nav etc) than the 997.1.

 

Adjustable Suspension ( Coil Overs, Drop Links, Sway Bars, Strut Braces ) and a Medium Track Alignment will have a 997.1 handling just the way you want it.

If you wanted more you cold always add a LSD.

Good Luck,

 

997.2 is a little stiffer than 997.1, a little less understeer, but overall still much more of a grand touring car than a sports car: a lot of body lean in corner, flabby & over-assisted steering. Some like the car as is, some think Porsche went way too much towards ride comfort while sacrificing handling; it's a personal decision.
The stock Turbo is actually softer and more comfortable than "lesser" 911's, such as the non-Turbo C2 (the car I had before switching to Turbo). This is a little known fact and did surprise me a little bit.

As many have mentioned, a 997.1 with after-market coilovers will tighten things up nicely. Stiffer coilover and sway bars will also tighten up the flabby steering, which for me is the biggest weakness of the Turbo.
IMHO the sweet spot for a used Turbo is a 2009 Manual Turbo with PCCB (best of many things: Mezger engine, trusted manual gear box, latest navigation /bluetooth /ipod). Drive it and see how you like it; if it feels too soft, add coilover/sway bar/rear Tarett drop link, then you are potentially set for life.

I described in more details the suspension change from 997.1 to 997.2 here, post # 168: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-turbo-12.html.

 

Thanks for the replies. Probably the stock set up will be fine for me, but it is good to know that a relatively simple suspension upgrade will make things better. Speaking of the GT3, that is on my list to try before I make any decisions.

Cannga, thanks for the post/link and for the suggestions.

 

You are kidding me on the e46M3 Right? LOL It trammels all over the road. if you want a track ride in a touring car fine. But we are talking daily driver type cars. If you can swing a 911 TT you can swing a dedicated track car as well.

The M3 is the touring/track car that kids fall in love with because they read numbers on it and think its grand. from E30's to e92 M3's the only one that was a true track car was the e30 the rest are track feel on the road which is fun..... unless there is a gnat crossing in front of you then the drive becomes a chore.

Thats fine though, if you like every negative of the road transferred into your experience that is the way to go.

To the OP, dude if you think a 911 is going to leave you wishing you had an m5 or m3 back..............

 

Wasn't talking about track nor comfort. Only speaking to weird "pogo floaty" feeling stock turbo had that robbed confidence from me and many others. Why else would the first mod by many be the very suspension we are talking about? Never had the same lack of confidence feeling in the M3, even though the turbo trounces my old car in every way.