Congrats are you going with Proto intercoolers or 997.2's?

 

I bought Chkmgnt59's 997.2 intercoolers when he upgraded to the Protomotive units. I was originally going to do the Protomotive intercoolers, but they are so much less money I decided to start there. I'm not made of money like the rest of you guys .

 

So we wrapped up the tune today with Todd. Ended up putting in a 5bar FPR this morning and... we're out of fuel. As in, the fuel pumps will not give us any more. Thankfully, we're also at the limit that Todd wants to run the car on my fuel here in town, so all is good. 1.5bar boost all in, decent timing and AFRs look good all the way out to redline. There's more to be had if we ran higher boost, but the pumps simply won't give it to us on e85.

Got new 60-130 time as well. Best I get is 6.5. Things that are hurting the time:
1) its friggin hot in Dallas. Even tonight it was 90* outside when I ran. Todd's seen that colder temps drop 60-130s significantly
2) stock wheels. rotational weight savings make huge impact to 60-130 times
3) 6speed transmission. My shifting isn't perfect, logs show i lost 1/2 second shifting before boost is back. Thats HUGE when its right in the middle of my run.
4) I did not get the ported hotside on the turbos. I know champions vtgs use a custom tial housing, and Todd offers ported hotside which helps hold the torque considerably higher in the top end. I didn't do it, maybe I will sometime. My tq curve drops a lot up top so that would have a big impact on top end acceleration

So I'm done chasing numbers on the 60-130 times. Just going to enjoy the car. Its fast, equals the speed of my buddy's GTR on E85, faster than 99% of the cars I'll run in to on the road. And if I ever want more, I'm already fully set for alphas, just swap the turbos and I'm good. And a built motor.... but I'm done spending $ on it for this year at least.

Based on all I've seen with my car, I find champion's 5.5 claim on 1.5bar very very hard to believe. But with lightweight wheels, cooler temps, the tial housing..... maybe?

 

Good stuff. That's a great time considering it's full weight and hot temps. If you have CF wheels, ceramic brakes, 2.9% decline, brake boost, colder air, faster shift, it's possible to get there. Your load curves look very nice for VTGs. Whether or not it's meaningful, they seem to be consistent with your time. Enjoy.

 

Hi J.
By cold AT (<5°C) I achieved 6.21' with my upgraded VTGs and Todd's tune, no breakboost but good octane and 1.5Bar boost, but the average was about 6.9' with pumpgas and 10/15°c AT...
Your results are very nice, I'm sure you will achieve flat 6' by lower AT; performances are more impacted by AT with VTGs than with Alphas I noticed.

P.

 

6.5 is a really good result when it's 90F outside. Which inlet pipes are you running? I'm sure it's posted in this thread somewhere, lol. The 5.5 time was on a tiptronic so less boost loss during shifts I presume. You should've gotten the extruded hotsides! apparently the times drop by close to half second according to previous posts. Try doing a run in just 4th gear - start at about 50mph and nail it. I found that way worked best for me with my 6speed. Other than that, just enjoy the car.

 

No inlet pipes, actually doing fenderwell intakes. Final setup is a complete alpha kit with VTGs instead of alphas. Yeah I should have done extruded hotsides that was silly not to.

 

By the time you pay for extruded hot sides you might as well ditch VTG altogether though. I understand why you made the decision you did.

My car should be finished tomorrow if all goes to plan. We'll have to 'compare' them to see how my 'budget' build fares . Stock turbos, Europipe Exhaust, BMC air filter, 997.2 intercoolers, Sachs 764 + disc from AWE Tuning, Proto/Bosch 80lb injectors, 5bar FPR, and E85 with Todd K. tickling the keys.

 

That would be the exact setup I would do if I had access to e85. That should make for a really fun car. Definitely a lot of bang for the buck.

 

I'm pretty happy with the parts choices, we'll see how it all comes together. I'm a little nervous about the clutch - the stock disc had marcel springs whereas the new disc did not. I'm hoping it is smooth on the engagement and doesn't chatter.

I fully expect to lose to Chkmgnt (probably badly) but for science it ought to be pretty interesting .

It's just too damn hot here right now to get meaningful 60-130 numbers. Chkmgnt is modest about his cars performance -- it has been stupid humid and hot (106 heat index the day he posted the times if I recall correctly) here in the DFW area. I would expect my car to pick up 30-40whp with a drop in temps to the high 60s. His car would probably pick up more. Shift recovery would be better in the cooler air, and if we can convince him to shift without lifting his right foot...

 

LOL well I'd rather be modest than overstate anything. I'll try and set some better times come winter.
About the clutch - you have nothing at all to worry about. I have the same one, and it feels like stock if only a bit more stiff, and absolutely no chatter. Chatter comes in with twin/triple plates and the LW flywheel.

When you're going to pick her up, give me a text or PM on here. I'll come up there and we can experiment :-)

 

True if the vtg setup is just a stepping stone. But if you don't want to go with external boost controllers etc then the extrude seems to maximize what the vtg can do.

It will be interesting to see your results on E85 compared to the 67vtgs with E85 that chkmgnt has. Todd had told me that the 67s are only worth it with E85 or racegas so I didn't jump on them.

I believe it's about 3700 for extruded upgraded vtgs. Next step up is alphas for about 5400 for the kit, plus boost controller, plus different turbo inlet pipes or fenderwell so there is a price difference for sure...

 

Yeah there's a price difference. In my case, we set the car up to accept alphas right now. No changing of anything else, just turbos and boost controller. I'm not sure what Todd charges for just the extrude, but I don't want to ask or else I'll do it LOL.

The 5400 number is also JUST the turbos. A complete alpha kit runs more in the 18-20k range not including exhaust or clutch. It's no joke. Now think about that I have the complete alpha kit other than the turbos... so I definitely blew the bank a bit. It'll be interesting to see the 'budget' build rix has vs mine. I had the same setup he did, then added the vtgs and 12k worth of alpha kit. SO bang for the buck I'm sure he wins. But hey, live once and yadda yadda

 

It's 1700 just for the extrude. I'm not sure it's worth taking the turbos off to do it b/c of the labour costs alone. If you crave more performance and you already have all the alpha kit minus the alphas then yeah you may as well just get the alphas!

 

Yeah kinda my thought too. Though you buy alphas, you want to max them meaning built engine. And now you're looking at $25k. No thanks..

Thankfully the fuel pumps are all done right now. Silly as that is, it keeps me from even having the desire to press forward because I HATE redoing fuel systems in cars. Always end up chasing some problem and ruin the DD ability or put in a loud fuel pump that the wife hates.