would it make sense to do rods and an 8k redline on vtgs?

 

Well that depends what VTG's. If you want to make over 675whp with our 68's for example...then yes, definitely do rods. Otherwise you should be OK.

As for raising the redline...no real need to do that. Power starts to fall off near redline, so there would be no real advantage to raising it. The only time we've really raised the redline was in a case where a customer needed just a few more seconds in a particular gear at his home track, in order to hit the end of a straightaway without shifting.

 

Or just Call Switzer and get a Syvecs ECU for your car

 

If your going to invest that much money in your motor, why would you want to stay with VTG's?

 

I think maybe the conversation has gotten a bit side-tracked and turning into a vendor vs vendor thing...

Any of the three vendors mentioned in this thread would happily build a well-designed car around the OP's goals. Pricing would depend on the options selected, power, etc etc but would overall be pretty similar. So.... OP should call the vendors and pick whomever he feels comfortable with. Any of the three I would trust with my car.

 

Well said!

 

Thanks for the explanation. Another noob's question please:

Bigger turbos (for example yours versus my stock VTG) seem to require a lot less turbo boost for a lot more power, is that true?

My car with stock VTG has max boost of 23.8 psi per Durametric and I am sure it doesn't have nearly the same power of yours.

 

Think of boost as a flow of water in a hose. With a small nozzle (turbo), to flow X water (air) you need more pressure (boost). With a larger nozzle (bigger turbo) you need less psi to flow the same amount of water/air. Simplistic explanation but principally correct.
There are trade offs to having a bigger turbo, in that the larger wheel takes more exhaust pressure to get spinning, thus boost comes in later in the rpm range aka turbo lag. Thus, it's a trade off between power and spool. The right turbo is the smallest one that will make the power you want.
Vtg vs alpha/gt is a whole different conversation as are considerably more trade offs to make between the two. Los of threads already covering that if you search.

 

Thanks for the clear explanation.

Regarding, VTG vs. Alpha/GT, would it be "generally correct" to say that for lower power application, say 700 hp or less, VTG is "better" because it has less turbo lag, whereas for higher power application of more than 800 hp, Alpha/GT is better because of more top end power?

 

For the most part - yes. Also a big factor in that is that VTGs are CHEAP compared to alpha setups on 997 turbos. 63.5 VTGs from proto are like $2100. Alpha 28/3071 kits are 15K at the cheapest because you have to change out many parts. Upgraded VTGs can work with a full alpha-type setup (like mine) or with everything stock. You can upgrade only what you want to. So they're much easier pill to swallow assuming you want under 800hp or so.

 

Cannga,

VTG's are limited to around 700whp, after that you need to go with a GT/Alpha turbo. Boost does come in earlier on VTG's though.

Ex:

VTG: Power will come in at 3000RPM

GT3076: Power will usually come in around 4000RPM and max power depending on fuel and internals can be up to 1000whp. Theres a lot of little things that make the power go up or down.

If you run E85 boost will kick in 500 RPM's quicker.

 

Very true. Switzer's VTG kit is $17,999 without clutch and their GT30 kit starts at $33,000 without clutch or fuel system for E85. Don't forget about labor too!

It all depends what you want with your car and what power you want to make!

Switzer does have an upgrade policy too though so whatever you spend now you get credit for towards the next kit above, if it's re-usable hardware I believe.

 

Im glad this conversation went into exactly what some of the specific differences are between VTGs and Alpha/GT's. Yes its always mentioned on the board, but its nice having a relatively simplified explanation of differences.

After talking with my tech and reading some more, it sounds like a VTG setup is the right option for me to build a track attack car. I dont have the desire for 1000whp or anything for this build nor would it be beneficial on the track.

With that said, I think I will go in this direction: For now, keep the stock internals and go with a VTG kit that is flexible enough to be able to provide about 625-650whp right now on lower boost, but get me to the 750-800whp mark with built internals and race maps. I also like the idea that I can bolt on everything with minimal permanent modifications to the car and receive enough power to keep me happy with stock internals, but still have the option to pull more out of it once I feel like building the internals.

One question I have (keeping in mind im coming from JPN Imports running AEM Standalones) is running 2 different maps so I can run 93 pump gas on the street and C16 on the track. From my reading, guys are using the factory ECU without even a piggyback on anything running stock internals still. So what do you do if you want a pump tune and a race gas tune? Also are guys (at the 650whp power level) taking the car to get tuned by a pro or doing a simple ECU flash with Softronic or another ECU flashing vendor?

I think im going to move my timetable up if I can determine the correct setup and which VTG turbo kit to go with so I want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row.

Thanks!

-Sayajin

 

We offer on-the-fly program switching, meaning you can switch from pump gas to race fuel in a second with the press of a button. We are able to do this because we actually rewrite the code within the ECU, as opposed to just flashing the maps on the ECU.

We provide the software for the Champion 65 and 68 kits.

Your other option would be to either have a 2nd ECU, or some kind of handheld flashing device with which you reflash your car each time you want to use different fuel.

 

Proto does his own tuning and can give multiple maps. I have an e85 map and a pump map. Just need a laptop and 2minutes and I can switch. Switzer can do something with his stand alone, not sure about champion.
I'm a fan of dyno tuning and custom tunes. Generic flashes based on mods I find silly because they're not custom to your car and your situation. Just my opinion, but its one of the reasons I worked with protomotive.
That type of power on vtgs will require proto 67 or champion 68s. Both need intake pipes replaced to function properly. Both companies offer full kits that will do what you want. Todd's is a bit cheaper, champion offers their warranty. Pick whomever you like once you've talked to them all.