Hi,

I was the original poster for the thread "Discussed before but not clear, Normal boost values"
Rather than making people go through the 8 pages of posts, I am posting the resolution of my issue here. If you want to read the original it is here

https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...st-values.html

In summary my 2007 997.1 Turbo had a gauge that read 0-14psi instead of 0-17psi as most people do if they have the Sport Chrono which I do.

My boost was never reaching 14 psi. It turns out that that part was a bad actuator rod for the turbo. My boost now will hit 14 and in sport chrono go over as indicated by the over boost marker.

However, not is all well, and I hope that other people might consider my situation when they look to buy a used Turbo.

In every case I have seen, the 997.1 Turbo in the US market with sport chrono after February 2007 build date has a gauge reading 0-17psi. It the car does not have Sport Chrono, it reads 0-14 according to one dealer I talked to.

I brought the car to the dealer, and they had it for a total of 8 days, to change the rod, two mafs and try to deal with the instrument cluster programming. They claim that they had a call with Porsche Canada, and they never got a response for over two weeks.

Finally after having the car in the shop for 4 days, they told me they could not reprogram the boost gauge and that Porsche Canada approved the ordering of a new instrument cluster. After another two weeks they called and said that Porsche Germany refused.

The bottom line, is that unless something electronic happened to the instrument gauge, which is highly unlikely to specifically affect just the scale values on the boost gauge, the instrument cluster had been changed before I purchased the car. It was not the original set of gauges.

The DME shows an average of 25 mph on a car that was in Florida and Montreal. Seems reasonable. However, on a copy of one of the papers for my car, the mileage was listed as 36,000 km but this was crossed out and listed as 30,000. That would give it an average of 35mph...Seems fishy to me.

In my opinion, if you are about to buy a 2007 Turbo that has a boost gauge reading 0-14, ask them to fix the programming before you agree to buy it. If they can't, walk away.

I am not at all impressed with the way Porsche dealerships handle their customers, at least in Montreal.

 

Pretty sad situation.

I guess you could keep contacting the dealer to keep sending in requests to Porsche for a replacement. You may be able to try other dealers in your area?

Can they also get you the reason for the refusal in writing?

A 0-14 PSI boost gauge reading on a 997.1 Turbo with SC is simply defective.

 

Sorry about what you have to go through - I have never been a fan of Porsche post sale service either.

Regardless of what the in-cabin gauge is reading, if you have not done so, IMHO it would be important to test your car with Durametric and see what numbers you are getting.

If you are getting same pressures by Durametric as what I reported in other thread (16 normal, 19 sport), then great, outside of a funky gauge reading, your car is working fine. If you are getting less, then perhaps there is some other problem and it's a true headache. You could also graph the engine load curve, and if it comes out same as mine, then you truly do not have any problem. I am too lazy now but will add the boost curve later, so you could truly compare.
It's very easy to do and bbywu's outstanding DIY thread has the info.

 

Sounds like there is some misrepresentation here. I would seek legal recourse against the responsible party whether it's the dealership or some other entity.

 

Did the SC get added later?

 

I actually had a similar problem where my boost gauge also read 0-7-14 and I rarely hit 10/12 psi.

So after reading various posts, I realized the stock boost values were 0-9-18.

I called various dealers and none of them sounded encouraging/receptive of looking into the car. I was told by two dealers that may be mine was one of the first few cars and hence a different boost gauge value

Any way, after several weeks of research, I realized it might have to do with the new ECU that installed last year for annoying on and off cold idle problem.

Any way, I dropped my car off at the dealer and told them I would like Porsche rep to look into it for me.

4 days later, I received a call that even though Porsche tech line couldn't help, but the lead porsche mechanic was able to fix the problem.

All it needed was cluster recalibration using their old tool " The hammer".

Car has been a different animal ever since.

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for all of the replies. I'm pretty sure the mechanics that attempted to fix my issue, really are not that knowledgable about the turbo. 8 days in the shop for a rod that needed replacement and two mafs that didn't. Not to mention the washing of my car with the dirty rags that took 4 days of detailing to remove.
The other shop in Montreal, kept my car for day to find an antifreeze leak that you could smell but not see. No evidence of antifreeze on the floor but a smell from the front drivers wheel well. Said that the pressure test was fine (on a cold engine).
Well this will get looked at.....One of the horns is gone, so they will have to pull the front bumper anyways.2

I'm going to try out the Durametric boost measurements for fun.

 

I think you definitely should. Check bbywu's super DIY thread first to make life easy for you. The parameters you are looking for in Durametric are boost pressure and engine load. If you do the test the same way as I did: straight, safe track without any other car, 2000 rpm crusing in 3rd gear, then sudden and fast WOT (pedal to the floor) and do not let go until rev limiter cuts in (you won't risk overreving because of rev limiter), your boosts and engine loads "should" be similar to mines, 154 and 172. Hopefully when more people are doing this we will have a better data base as to whast is considered "normal."

IMHO it's a good idea to get Durametric for *anyone* with an ECU mod regardless of companies, just so you could check on your tuner and see what he's doing to your car and whether he did a good job.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ed-giac-8.html
What I see with Durametric in Stock Mode, the actual measured boost:
Normal Stock 2020-910 = 1.110 bar = 16.1 psi at 3248 rpm, max engine load 154
Sport Stock 2250-910 = 1.340 bar = 19.4 psi at 3471 rpm, max engine load 172

What I see with Durametric and GIAC
Normal GIAC 2350-910 = 1.440 bar = 20.9 psi at 3421 rpm, max engine load 194
Sport GIAC 2550-910 = 1.640 bar = 23.8 psi at 3343 rpm, max engine load 222

 

Hi

I am about to log engine load and boost to make sure all is ok before my warranty runs out.

But I do feel that max boost is quite temp dependent, today its much colder than yesterday (almost 10deg celcius diff) and I dont think I even see 1bar even in sport mode.

I am assuming engine load is still the same as you messured but I will find out soon...

 

Thanks for the good info Can. Do you know why your stock numbers are higher than the published stock numbers of 1.0 bar (normal) and 1.2 bar (sport)? Thanks.

 

Boost curve, finally. Now we are looking at the "home-made version" (Durametric based, not dyno based) of the charts that tuners look at when they tune the car. If you have questions about your tune (I don't - just doing this out of curiosity), I would graph AFR curve on top of these also.

Graphing gives fantastic visual clues as to what is going with your tune. Don't just look at the number, graph them!

 

I am no expert but IMHO there is something wrong with either
a. the reading function, or
b. the turbo function itself
if you can't see even 1 bar in Sport mode.
Here in Southern Cal, at up to 90's Farenheit, I routinely and easily see 1.2 bar in the reading of stock Sport mode, both before and after I added the GIAC tune.

I assume you are loading the car properly? Is this how you do it: long stretch of empty straight road, has to start with cruising around 2000 rpm, in 4th or better yet 5th, and then fast pedal to the bottom and don't let go.

I reposted the boost curve of stock Sport mode above so you could compare when you have the Durametric cable. That one was done in 3rd gear, 2000 rpm, then WOT. If you do it the same way, the number *should* come out similar. Sorry I could only do 1 run as I didn't have time.

 

jh, thanks and you are very welcome. No I do not know why; my assumption would be that a certain amount of torque is requested then the ECU provides the boost to achieve it (anyone pls correct me as needed, bbywu?, Dave/TTdude?), and if it exceeds within a certain range, in this case 19 psi, it's allowed. The numbers advertised 1 Normal/1.2 Sport are just nice, clean approximates.

I should also add that my data is just one data point, done in one run, and therefore subjected to errors. I didn't even have time to repeat the run and don't have the Durametric cable anymore.
I haven't seen anyone else posted numbers like these but hopefully when more people are aware of this method of testing, we will have a better idea of what is normal.

 

Since the stock software is trying to keep power consistent I assume boost will be temp dependent, but you are right, it shouldnt differ that much.

My logging session got cancelled (wife sick) so I will prob wait until next week (traveling tomorrow through sunday).

I havent managed to do a good test run, most roads close to home isnt good enough and I cant keep looking at the boost gauge in-dash and drive safely...

 

and btw, thanks for your logs and posts, without that I wouldnt have anything to compare with, thanks cannga!

I have 62F today here in Stockholm so its quite cold compared to CA