Turbo comparison – 997.1 to 997.2 – old news but new to me!
#1
03-21-2014, 03:34 PM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rye, NY
Posts: 3,335
Rep Power: 199 
Turbo comparison – 997.1 to 997.2 – old news but new to me!
As I was fortunate enough to upgrade from my 2008 turbo to a 2011 997.2, I knew there were many advantages of the new model to make the upgrade worthwhile. However, to many the car simply looks the same. Not to slight my West Coast friend Can, who started another 997.1 to 997.2 comparison, I felt that thread became focused on a Mezger/non-Mezger comparison. I thought I would start a thread to focus on the many items that have changed in the cars, in addition to the motors. The model change has also created a different list of "must have" options for consideration. Here are some of the things I've discovered on my 2011 turbo that have been revised from the prior generation:
Lighting
Many changes here, beyond the obvious addition of the LED taillights. Foglights have been updated to LED and they are very bright. As an added bonus, the LED fogs become DRL's through user programming. Very nice addition.
Headlights are bi xenon. Here is a new option I would add to your wish list – Dynamic Cornering Lights. Should be standard on the car (apparently standard on the turbo S), but they are a low cost option. As inferred, the lights move when you steer the car. A real plus for driving at speed in the corners. Porsche also added PDLS, which has an automated high beam, but I'm not sure this has as much significance as the cornering lights.
Suspension
This is old news to many, but the PASM revision to the car is huge. Or perhaps not so huge! The difference over the .1 is subtle, yet sublime. Normal is stiffer and Sport is softer. That's all it took. The porpoising of the front end is minimized and the Sport mode is useful in the twisties. Frankly, it is amazing how such a subtle change so dramatically improves the car. The car is a bit harsher in normal driving, but this will likely not be viewed negatively by most enthusiasts. I know now why there are way fewer coilover suspensions on .2 cars, there simply isn't as much need. Yes, the car could sit lower, but we all know the ground clearance compromise posed by lowering the car even 1".
I believe the car also benefits from changed sway bars and spring rates. Will need to research that some more, but suffice to say the car seems much more poised exiting corners. The car is extremely easy to drive fast; noticeably more poised than the 997.1.
I'll add here the addition of centerlocks. If you look for a turbo S, you will invariably find a car with centerlocks. While the stock wheels look pretty good, I'm sure I would change them. That, combined with switching to snow tires in the winter, I really didn't want to go down the centerlock road. Although there are many S benefits, not wanting centerlocks pushed me towards a non-S. I already owned a set of Champion forged wheels; I looked forward to simply bolting them up to the new car!
Engine/Drivetrain
The DFI motor really has a different character, which has pluses and minuses. It is very smooth and the boost delivery is even more seamless than in the .1. I quickly noticed that the engine is quieter than the .1 – either that or the muffler is quieter. Some say the S motor is a bit louder, but I haven't compared them directly. It simply feels more powerful.
Is the exhaust quieter or is the car quieter? Or both? I'm curious what others think, but it seems like the car has more insulation. It seems quieter on the highway. Don't know if this is a result of fundamental design changes or if the car simply has more insulation.
Although smooth, the throttle response is slower. My car is PDK, so it isn't as big a factor as it would be in a manual. Rev matching downshifts are always more difficult with slow response. Even in Sport mode, the throttle response is slow. The car seems to need an exhaust/tune to alleviate this condition!
Note that the turbo S does not have overboost in Sport mode and runs up to full boost at all times. The "normal" turbo gets much more torque in overboost; does this suggest the HP is equivalent to the S, but only for 20 seconds? I wonder. As we know, a 30 hp difference on a car with 500 hp is nominal – with the kicker being that Porsche's often produce more than rated power levels. Isn't it interesting that the overboost torque level of the regular turbo is the same 516 lb ft of the turbo S? How could that impact a 0-60 time that only lasts 3 seconds?
New performance options? Sport chrono, no question. Not only for the over boost function, but the option includes dynamic motor mounts. Not sure how you would really notice the difference, but this is another performance enhancement. PTV or Porsche Torque Vectoring. I wondered if the Locking Differential was available and I didn't see it. The locking differential is included with the PTV option! Electronic enhancement of the locking diff, this is one of the few performance enhancements to look for.
PDK or manual?
As a die-hard manual tranny lover, it was a challenge to pick the PDK. My '08 had a 6 speed with the marvelous short shift kit. Nothing shifts like a Porsche. So smooth, exact and without notchiness. Rev matching is effortless. But the time came to move to PDK. (I tried before with the BMW SMG and boy that was a disaster worthy of another story.) The PDK just works. And it works well. I drove them before at the Porsche school on the track and it is a very worthy partner in fast driving. You focus much more on driving than shifting.
However, there are some issues already known to many. When you shift the .2, there is a noticeable, annoying lag. I think one needs to shift predictably, anticipating the lag. Here BMW got it right and Porsche doesn't. BMW separates the shift speed and the engine response "Sport" mode in two separate controls. On the .2, shifting time improves with the Sport button, but that also increases the motor response. It would be great to minimize the shift time, without altering the throttle mapping. The improved PDK in the 991 has nicely improved response; Porsche recognized and corrected the issue.
On the used market, there are few manual .2 turbos. Some would argue they are more desirable. However, they were usually discounted and seemed to sell more slowly.
PCM
Of course the PCM has improved. Not just the touchscreen, of course. In 2011, the universal audio interface became standard equipment. iPod works seamlessly and displays everything including album, artist and songs – as well as playlists and the ability to shuffle from the PCM. Satellite radio as well now, but the audio quality from satellite radio is so poor, I don't use it. I haven't tried streaming Pandora or other internet options, that should be entertaining!
If any of you have followed my "Budget Audio Install" on the 997 board, you'll know the Bose system can be easily improved! The .2 advertised more amplification and the character of the whole system seems different. I'm not sure if this is due to new drivers or simply the PCM and amplification change. For those with this system, I'll be adding to my thread. Here I'll note one of the biggest benefits of the Porsche system is the ability to EQ different sources. Note that when you select a source and go into "Sound", the settings are specific to that source. This is excellent as one would typically EQ FM differently than iPod inputs. Also, unique to the new PCM, is an "Options" selection on the "Sound" menu. You can adjust the speed adjusted volume (turn off!), Surround (also turn off!), and the NEW "Linear" setting! Select this for the "audiophile" experience (that's what it says, I didn't make it up)! Well, quite a revelation – I couldn't believe it. Turns the bloated bass of the Bose system WAY down and increases the treble. So far, this seems a mixed benefit. The bloated bass reduction is welcome, but the increased treble is challenged by the poor stock tweeters that have limited capacity. I think the non-Linear setting may be the best, but only after one swaps out the subwoofer and door bass speakers. Great to see a confession that the Bose system's bass is horribly bloated and they felt a need to address it.
Turbo or Turbo S?
A common question I suppose. The S has several included options plus a hp boost of 30 hp. Is it worth it? Arguably yes. However, the premium on the used market (2011 and newer only) is still over $10k. Which elements of the S make it more desirable? Well, the hp is only nominal, yet the car is a tick quicker, so the "stated" S hp increase may be greater on actual cars. Otherwise, a non-S with overboost should develop nearly the same power, since the Sport Chrono on the S doesn't have an overboost function; maximum boost is always unrestricted at 17 psi.
Other included options? Well, there are PCCB's. This is huge and hard to find on a non-S car. I won't argue, these are great and worth nearly the full price difference.
Biggest issue for me is that the turbo S includes standard centerlocks wheels. Besides issues finding aftermarket wheels (although the options are growing), changing wheels is difficult DIY and the need to switch to snows in the winter necessitates a change twice a year. This issue narrowed the search for me to non-S turbos.
However, if you don't choose the S, be sure to look for the key S options. Sport chrono goes almost without saying, for the overboost and dynamic engine mounts. Also Porsche Torque Vectoring for the electronically enhanced limited slip differential. Sport wheel with shift paddles – although you could add this later, but you definitely want this wheel, the stock PDK wheel has the opposite of intuitive push pull buttons. Dynamic Cornering Lights I mentioned earlier are included on the S. Adaptive Sport Seats – narrow, but adjustable and very comfortable. If you find an S, you hopefully avoided one with the selection of the hideous 2 tone interiors (cream or baby blue inserts) that are exclusive to the S – not my personal choice. I guess I should mention PCCB's as some non-S cars have them too, but so much has been written about the almost offsetting positive and negative attributes of these, perhaps you don't want them ( I would not turn them down, but I wouldn't pass on an otherwise perfect car that didn't have them).
What other options? Besides the aforementioned, I really like a painted center console and painted seat backs. Very expensive for the original owner and hard to change via aftermarket (although consoles are available and seats can be painted). Mine came with matching Basalt console and seat backs.
Lighting
Many changes here, beyond the obvious addition of the LED taillights. Foglights have been updated to LED and they are very bright. As an added bonus, the LED fogs become DRL's through user programming. Very nice addition.
Headlights are bi xenon. Here is a new option I would add to your wish list – Dynamic Cornering Lights. Should be standard on the car (apparently standard on the turbo S), but they are a low cost option. As inferred, the lights move when you steer the car. A real plus for driving at speed in the corners. Porsche also added PDLS, which has an automated high beam, but I'm not sure this has as much significance as the cornering lights.
Suspension
This is old news to many, but the PASM revision to the car is huge. Or perhaps not so huge! The difference over the .1 is subtle, yet sublime. Normal is stiffer and Sport is softer. That's all it took. The porpoising of the front end is minimized and the Sport mode is useful in the twisties. Frankly, it is amazing how such a subtle change so dramatically improves the car. The car is a bit harsher in normal driving, but this will likely not be viewed negatively by most enthusiasts. I know now why there are way fewer coilover suspensions on .2 cars, there simply isn't as much need. Yes, the car could sit lower, but we all know the ground clearance compromise posed by lowering the car even 1".
I believe the car also benefits from changed sway bars and spring rates. Will need to research that some more, but suffice to say the car seems much more poised exiting corners. The car is extremely easy to drive fast; noticeably more poised than the 997.1.
I'll add here the addition of centerlocks. If you look for a turbo S, you will invariably find a car with centerlocks. While the stock wheels look pretty good, I'm sure I would change them. That, combined with switching to snow tires in the winter, I really didn't want to go down the centerlock road. Although there are many S benefits, not wanting centerlocks pushed me towards a non-S. I already owned a set of Champion forged wheels; I looked forward to simply bolting them up to the new car!
Engine/Drivetrain
The DFI motor really has a different character, which has pluses and minuses. It is very smooth and the boost delivery is even more seamless than in the .1. I quickly noticed that the engine is quieter than the .1 – either that or the muffler is quieter. Some say the S motor is a bit louder, but I haven't compared them directly. It simply feels more powerful.
Is the exhaust quieter or is the car quieter? Or both? I'm curious what others think, but it seems like the car has more insulation. It seems quieter on the highway. Don't know if this is a result of fundamental design changes or if the car simply has more insulation.
Although smooth, the throttle response is slower. My car is PDK, so it isn't as big a factor as it would be in a manual. Rev matching downshifts are always more difficult with slow response. Even in Sport mode, the throttle response is slow. The car seems to need an exhaust/tune to alleviate this condition!
Note that the turbo S does not have overboost in Sport mode and runs up to full boost at all times. The "normal" turbo gets much more torque in overboost; does this suggest the HP is equivalent to the S, but only for 20 seconds? I wonder. As we know, a 30 hp difference on a car with 500 hp is nominal – with the kicker being that Porsche's often produce more than rated power levels. Isn't it interesting that the overboost torque level of the regular turbo is the same 516 lb ft of the turbo S? How could that impact a 0-60 time that only lasts 3 seconds?
New performance options? Sport chrono, no question. Not only for the over boost function, but the option includes dynamic motor mounts. Not sure how you would really notice the difference, but this is another performance enhancement. PTV or Porsche Torque Vectoring. I wondered if the Locking Differential was available and I didn't see it. The locking differential is included with the PTV option! Electronic enhancement of the locking diff, this is one of the few performance enhancements to look for.
PDK or manual?
As a die-hard manual tranny lover, it was a challenge to pick the PDK. My '08 had a 6 speed with the marvelous short shift kit. Nothing shifts like a Porsche. So smooth, exact and without notchiness. Rev matching is effortless. But the time came to move to PDK. (I tried before with the BMW SMG and boy that was a disaster worthy of another story.) The PDK just works. And it works well. I drove them before at the Porsche school on the track and it is a very worthy partner in fast driving. You focus much more on driving than shifting.
However, there are some issues already known to many. When you shift the .2, there is a noticeable, annoying lag. I think one needs to shift predictably, anticipating the lag. Here BMW got it right and Porsche doesn't. BMW separates the shift speed and the engine response "Sport" mode in two separate controls. On the .2, shifting time improves with the Sport button, but that also increases the motor response. It would be great to minimize the shift time, without altering the throttle mapping. The improved PDK in the 991 has nicely improved response; Porsche recognized and corrected the issue.
On the used market, there are few manual .2 turbos. Some would argue they are more desirable. However, they were usually discounted and seemed to sell more slowly.
PCM
Of course the PCM has improved. Not just the touchscreen, of course. In 2011, the universal audio interface became standard equipment. iPod works seamlessly and displays everything including album, artist and songs – as well as playlists and the ability to shuffle from the PCM. Satellite radio as well now, but the audio quality from satellite radio is so poor, I don't use it. I haven't tried streaming Pandora or other internet options, that should be entertaining!
If any of you have followed my "Budget Audio Install" on the 997 board, you'll know the Bose system can be easily improved! The .2 advertised more amplification and the character of the whole system seems different. I'm not sure if this is due to new drivers or simply the PCM and amplification change. For those with this system, I'll be adding to my thread. Here I'll note one of the biggest benefits of the Porsche system is the ability to EQ different sources. Note that when you select a source and go into "Sound", the settings are specific to that source. This is excellent as one would typically EQ FM differently than iPod inputs. Also, unique to the new PCM, is an "Options" selection on the "Sound" menu. You can adjust the speed adjusted volume (turn off!), Surround (also turn off!), and the NEW "Linear" setting! Select this for the "audiophile" experience (that's what it says, I didn't make it up)! Well, quite a revelation – I couldn't believe it. Turns the bloated bass of the Bose system WAY down and increases the treble. So far, this seems a mixed benefit. The bloated bass reduction is welcome, but the increased treble is challenged by the poor stock tweeters that have limited capacity. I think the non-Linear setting may be the best, but only after one swaps out the subwoofer and door bass speakers. Great to see a confession that the Bose system's bass is horribly bloated and they felt a need to address it.
Turbo or Turbo S?
A common question I suppose. The S has several included options plus a hp boost of 30 hp. Is it worth it? Arguably yes. However, the premium on the used market (2011 and newer only) is still over $10k. Which elements of the S make it more desirable? Well, the hp is only nominal, yet the car is a tick quicker, so the "stated" S hp increase may be greater on actual cars. Otherwise, a non-S with overboost should develop nearly the same power, since the Sport Chrono on the S doesn't have an overboost function; maximum boost is always unrestricted at 17 psi.
Other included options? Well, there are PCCB's. This is huge and hard to find on a non-S car. I won't argue, these are great and worth nearly the full price difference.
Biggest issue for me is that the turbo S includes standard centerlocks wheels. Besides issues finding aftermarket wheels (although the options are growing), changing wheels is difficult DIY and the need to switch to snows in the winter necessitates a change twice a year. This issue narrowed the search for me to non-S turbos.
However, if you don't choose the S, be sure to look for the key S options. Sport chrono goes almost without saying, for the overboost and dynamic engine mounts. Also Porsche Torque Vectoring for the electronically enhanced limited slip differential. Sport wheel with shift paddles – although you could add this later, but you definitely want this wheel, the stock PDK wheel has the opposite of intuitive push pull buttons. Dynamic Cornering Lights I mentioned earlier are included on the S. Adaptive Sport Seats – narrow, but adjustable and very comfortable. If you find an S, you hopefully avoided one with the selection of the hideous 2 tone interiors (cream or baby blue inserts) that are exclusive to the S – not my personal choice. I guess I should mention PCCB's as some non-S cars have them too, but so much has been written about the almost offsetting positive and negative attributes of these, perhaps you don't want them ( I would not turn them down, but I wouldn't pass on an otherwise perfect car that didn't have them).
What other options? Besides the aforementioned, I really like a painted center console and painted seat backs. Very expensive for the original owner and hard to change via aftermarket (although consoles are available and seats can be painted). Mine came with matching Basalt console and seat backs.
#2
03-21-2014, 05:49 PM
I like the comparison, and I do agree with most of it. A friend of mine has the S and that 2 tone interior! it just didn't do it for me 
Could you elaborate on "the Bose system can be easily improved!"
I would like more bass, so any suggestions?
Thanks
Could you elaborate on "the Bose system can be easily improved!"
I would like more bass, so any suggestions?
Thanks
#5
03-21-2014, 07:17 PM
#6
03-21-2014, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the write up. Can you elaborate more on the PTV ? When do you feel it ?
post some pics !!
what are your first mods going to be ?
post some pics !!
what are your first mods going to be ?
#7
03-21-2014, 07:22 PM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rye, NY
Posts: 3,335
Rep Power: 199
Thanks guys!
In respect to bass, the question is, do you want MORE bass or BETTER bass? And I also have to say that for some more is better! Redwine's solution is about the only way to really get more bass, add 10" subs.
If you are looking for better quality bass out of your stock enclosure at a reasonable price, take a look here:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o-install.html
In respect to bass, the question is, do you want MORE bass or BETTER bass? And I also have to say that for some more is better! Redwine's solution is about the only way to really get more bass, add 10" subs.
If you are looking for better quality bass out of your stock enclosure at a reasonable price, take a look here:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o-install.html
Trending Topics
#8
03-21-2014, 07:31 PM
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Rye, NY
Posts: 3,335
Rep Power: 199 Mods? Well, the motor is just really quiet! It just screams for an exhaust, question is can I hold out??? And which one??? The .2 is just a totally different beast than the .1 and the exhausts are much different.
#9
03-21-2014, 07:36 PM
Nice writeup. I agree with basically everything you wrote. Having come from a 997.1 myself, the differences seem more than just a "mild mid-generation update"--it's a different car.
Still happy I got my stick shift, but I'm sure the PDK bug will hit me one day too. Enjoy your car!
Still happy I got my stick shift, but I'm sure the PDK bug will hit me one day too. Enjoy your car!
#10
03-21-2014, 07:41 PM
Thanks guys! In respect to bass, the question is, do you want MORE bass or BETTER bass? And I also have to say that for some more is better! Redwine's solution is about the only way to really get more bass, add 10" subs. If you are looking for better quality bass out of your stock enclosure at a reasonable price, take a look here: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...o-install.html
#12
03-21-2014, 09:07 PM
Nice writeup ryem3! For those of us who jumped straight into the .2 (PDK was on my "must-have" list so the .1's were basically eliminated from contention) the comparison is certainly informative.
I can relate to the "non-S" vs. "S" debate. Like you mentioned, it basically came down to getting all the nice options as standard on the "S" for what amounted to a "bargain" (i.e., $10K more for PCCB, dynamic cornering lights, dynamic engine mounts, sports chrono, CL wheels, consistent 516lbs-ft TQ and 30+HP etc.!) made the decision a relatively easy one for me. One thing I will say though, the turbo S is a very easy car to drive FAST, even in the twisties (I'm sure the same goes for the turbo)!
Enjoy your .2, amazing car, nice pic! BTW, I went for one with the "hideous 2 tone interiors (cream)"...I thought it was a nice exclusive touch and it didn't look half-bad...my personal choice I guess...haha
I can relate to the "non-S" vs. "S" debate. Like you mentioned, it basically came down to getting all the nice options as standard on the "S" for what amounted to a "bargain" (i.e., $10K more for PCCB, dynamic cornering lights, dynamic engine mounts, sports chrono, CL wheels, consistent 516lbs-ft TQ and 30+HP etc.!) made the decision a relatively easy one for me. One thing I will say though, the turbo S is a very easy car to drive FAST, even in the twisties (I'm sure the same goes for the turbo)!
Enjoy your .2, amazing car, nice pic! BTW, I went for one with the "hideous 2 tone interiors (cream)"...I thought it was a nice exclusive touch and it didn't look half-bad...my personal choice I guess...haha
Last edited by akunob; 03-21-2014 at 09:29 PM.
#13
03-21-2014, 09:21 PM
Is it the fitment that is different? Or the entire construction?
Congrats btw
Congrats btw
#14
03-21-2014, 09:23 PM
"changing wheels is difficult DIY"
Please tell me what is difficult about changing centerlock wheels. I change mine all the time and it seems pretty simple to me. I change my own oil too.
Walt
Please tell me what is difficult about changing centerlock wheels. I change mine all the time and it seems pretty simple to me. I change my own oil too.
Walt
#15
03-21-2014, 10:32 PM
As someone who was recently choosing between first or second gen turbos, I can really appreciate this thread. Thanks Rye!
Manual was a must have so I was pretty much locked into .1s. Like you said, manual on .2's is just too rare! Especially if you're looking for specific options like GT Silver, PCCBS, low miles etc. I don't know what I would do if a .2 in this spec ever popped up up.
I am interested in learning more about the cabin noise. As someone who is sensitive to road/engine/exhaust noise, the quieter .2 cabin interests me. I wonder just how much quieter is it back to back vs a .1... something like 5db perhaps?
Congrats on the car, more pictures! One is not enough
Btw, I LOVE the look of the dynamic headlights. If I can find a set I would consider popping them in. I know a few people on these forums have done it.
Manual was a must have so I was pretty much locked into .1s. Like you said, manual on .2's is just too rare! Especially if you're looking for specific options like GT Silver, PCCBS, low miles etc. I don't know what I would do if a .2 in this spec ever popped up up.
I am interested in learning more about the cabin noise. As someone who is sensitive to road/engine/exhaust noise, the quieter .2 cabin interests me. I wonder just how much quieter is it back to back vs a .1... something like 5db perhaps?
Congrats on the car, more pictures! One is not enough
Btw, I LOVE the look of the dynamic headlights. If I can find a set I would consider popping them in. I know a few people on these forums have done it.
Last edited by acf; 03-21-2014 at 10:34 PM.