E85 (Tips and Consequences)
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Joined: Dec 2008
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From: tn
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Hey Steve! Well why do that if my 10 micron filter (although be it paper element) can do the job...I say the lower the micron the better for E85. Assuming the paper doesn't start to deteriorate. I'll use it and see how it goes...if it appears to breaking down on the E..I'll move to the stainless element. I need to quit slacking and get the e85 tune on the car!
Here's the filter I'm running...btw. Except with the paper element.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all40218
Here's the filter I'm running...btw. Except with the paper element.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all40218
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Good thread. Seems like to me that flex fuel sensor is a must with ethanol due to the fluctuation in alcohol volume at the pump. From the sounds of it...a tune that cannot adapt fueling needs and timing puts you at a higher risk than without.
That being said, I still am a little apprehensive about switching over to full time E85 and I have the flex fuel sensor, 1100cc's injectors, huge fuel lines, e85 pumps and Pro-EFI. My concerns are more with the fuel lines, in-tank fuel lines, oil changes, Fuel filter, etc.
For example - I am running a 10-micron paper element fuel filter...which should be great for filtration of ethanol, however, I have heard both sides of the argument on paper elements breaking down. Some say that paper breaks down, however, GM runs paper elements on their flex fuel vehicles and have no issues at all with ethanol.....so it's stuff like that keeping me from making the change. And running a stainless 60-100 micron fuel filter doesn't seem like enough filter to me.
I did research on my internal tank fuel hoses, however, I'm still a little worried about them breaking down after time sitting in ethanol. Same thing with the wiring for the fuel pumps....I have seen some issues with the wiring insulation breaking down with ethanol (even wiring made for ethanol) and exposing wiring so that really worries me as well. I've been thinking about building some aluminum tubing for the internal fuel tank lines for extra safety.
All of my buddies who run e85 don't seem to worry as much as I do about it...lol. And they love it.
Scot
That being said, I still am a little apprehensive about switching over to full time E85 and I have the flex fuel sensor, 1100cc's injectors, huge fuel lines, e85 pumps and Pro-EFI. My concerns are more with the fuel lines, in-tank fuel lines, oil changes, Fuel filter, etc.
For example - I am running a 10-micron paper element fuel filter...which should be great for filtration of ethanol, however, I have heard both sides of the argument on paper elements breaking down. Some say that paper breaks down, however, GM runs paper elements on their flex fuel vehicles and have no issues at all with ethanol.....so it's stuff like that keeping me from making the change. And running a stainless 60-100 micron fuel filter doesn't seem like enough filter to me.
I did research on my internal tank fuel hoses, however, I'm still a little worried about them breaking down after time sitting in ethanol. Same thing with the wiring for the fuel pumps....I have seen some issues with the wiring insulation breaking down with ethanol (even wiring made for ethanol) and exposing wiring so that really worries me as well. I've been thinking about building some aluminum tubing for the internal fuel tank lines for extra safety.
All of my buddies who run e85 don't seem to worry as much as I do about it...lol. And they love it.
Scot
The only issue (imo) worth worrying about is cars running "normal" fuel for years having deposits in tank/lines that might be dissolved by E85 and clogging filters etc. So plan for a new fuel filter swap a few months after changing fuel on an older car. I have a spare oem filter but still after over a year of full E85 in a 2007 turbo, I had zero issues with fuel delivery, running Cobb I log regularly (since it is so easy when you don't need to bring a laptop and co-driver every time).
And as Dzenno mentioned, most E85 tunes are E70 tunes to be safe.
I ran E85 mixes (up to E40) in my BMW 335 (2007) for years without issues. Currently running E85 all year in Sweden, cold starts can be rough when it gets cold in the winter (and it gets real cold sometimes).
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I have a drum of E98 at home just in case. The E85 station that I use is usually E70-E75. The cars run great on that, but if I feel a bit naughty, then I usually throw in a couple of gallons of E98 to bump up the octane levels...E78-E82 seem great on the cars. Both the EVT and the Alpha love it!
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Tailwag, you may want to take the other posts in for advice. I'm still trying to figure this one out.
Comparing the performance rating of E70 compared to E90 just doesn't stand up to each other for me if you don't change your tune.
In my situation, I wasn't driving down the road with the eventually "floor the gas pedal," I was at the track with the pedal to the floor 70%+ of the time during a 30 min session.
Chart below may help with some reference. Cars tune will really dictate your E70 experience. I cant speak from a tuners stance though.
Freak, you may have more insight on this topic.
Comparing the performance rating of E70 compared to E90 just doesn't stand up to each other for me if you don't change your tune.
In my situation, I wasn't driving down the road with the eventually "floor the gas pedal," I was at the track with the pedal to the floor 70%+ of the time during a 30 min session.
Chart below may help with some reference. Cars tune will really dictate your E70 experience. I cant speak from a tuners stance though.
Freak, you may have more insight on this topic.
If you've been tuned for a lower ethanol percentage say E60 you shouldn't really make a drastic change and go with E98 blindly without datalogging and looking over your fuel trims and fuel targets or reviewing your fuel pressure (if you've got a way to log it).
Depending on power levels and if your fuel system isn't built to supply the required volume/pressure you might end up with fuel starvation issues due to pumps being unable to supply enough volume to going leaner than target as fuel trims max out due to injectors not being set properly for your fuel.
Dzenno@PTF
Depending on power levels and if your fuel system isn't built to supply the required volume/pressure you might end up with fuel starvation issues due to pumps being unable to supply enough volume to going leaner than target as fuel trims max out due to injectors not being set properly for your fuel.
Dzenno@PTF
I def have upgraded fuel pumps along with BBI's full upgraded fuel system with 1300 cc inj ,just wondering if i can throw this stuff in with my current Cobb E85 tune & see any difference ,or would i need a separate tune to run it thanks ,just discovered it's availability down the road.
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Take a look at one of your logs, as long as you're near 0 on the fuel trims it should be fine. I would log it on the first pull to see where it is, but it should be in the adjustment range. Not sure you will really see any gain out of it though without going more aggressive on the ignition timing.
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I doubt you'll see more power. I would run it for its additional knock safety and consistency of the fuel. Have you tested this E98 pump yet to see its accuracy?
Your tuner may be able to advance the timing slightly.
Your tuner may be able to advance the timing slightly.
So... Say you're running w/ a Cobb AP, E85 Tune, Can you, in essence, if say, running out of E85 and need to fill w/ 93, just on the fly change your tune at the station, and everything's A-OK?
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Takes about 30 seconds.
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If you decided to do this, run your tank close to the empty light, fill, and change maps within 30 secs.
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